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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#791

Post by red-iron-pine »

ascorbic wrote: post #517
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid, my dad owned a pickup truck in Mississippi, and there seem to be tons of ways of avoiding getting the groceries wet, a bed-width toolbox behind the cab was the simplest way (and this was way before extended cabs were a thing). If you are living in such an area where they can't even figure that kind of thing out, it sounds like there might be something in the water.

Funny to see so many workarounds to avoid the obvious solution of buying a vehicle with a roof instead of playing at being a farmer or builder.

in most cases the manufacturers offer an SUV version on the same chassis.

E.g. the Hilux/Tacoma vs. it's SUV sibling the 4Runner

It's one of the reasons why Honda and Hyundai are offering trucks -- they're already making the giant SUV, so just put a flat bed on it.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#792

Post by red-iron-pine »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #580
moron4hire wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we typically leave all the food in the packaging first.

Still, the packaging then presumably goes into the fridge and cupboards? And I would imagine there would be fresh produce in the bag as well? Maybe it makes sense, it just sounds unpleasant to me.

you're washing your produce, right?

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#793

Post by red-iron-pine »

fragmede wrote: post #505
dalyons wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats like $250k of cars at new prices, yes you're not typical :)

well yeah, but you don't buy them new and all at once

the raptor alone is uncommon and is expensive a super-premium luxury truck.

parent poster is loaded af

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#794

Post by hamdingers »

theshrike79 wrote: post #559
qingcharles wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an area that has probably >100% pick-up ownership per adult male. I've noticed that these people will not go to the grocery store on days when the weather is inclement due to the chance of the groceries getting wet. Seems like a bad vehicle for grocery runs.

I don't get the whole American thing for Pick-up trucks. Unless you're hauling hay or manure, why would you want your cargo area exposed to the elements? A normal van is better in every single way. I can't figure out why someone would put their expensive tools in a pick-up's bed when this is an option: https://modulinecabinets.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/van-...

The auto industry has spent billions of dollars on propaganda to convince Americans they need a big truck for their self image.

They have done this because big trucks are by far the most profitable segment of vehicle, and emissions regulations reward vehicles for being large.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#795

Post by ssl-3 »

joleyj wrote: post #596
ssl-3 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive a Honda van, usually with the seats out/folded down. It's really big back there. It holds an enormous volume of stuff. 4x8 sheets of plywood fit inside with the doors closed, and so do 10-foot lengths of pipe. It's easy to access stuff at the front or the back. It's all contained under a roof in a locking, conditioned space (3 zones of HVAC) and is easy to get to from either sliding door or the back tailgate.…

What’s the towing capacity of your van. How do you think it would do pulling a 6000 pound trailer?

Good question. I don't usually think of towing stuff because that's seldom been a part of my life.

3500 pounds is what Honda lists for towing capacity (same as a 2WD Honda Pilot, even though an AWD Honda Pilot with exactly the same engine and transmission is more like 5000).

If towing capacity is defined as "what people can expect a thing to reliably do for many thousands of miles, in a row, over and over again" then I think a bone-stock Odyssey would roll over and die with 6000 pounds behind it.

Slow trip to the dump that's right over there across flat terrain? Sure, probably OK if it's rather heavy. Through the Appalachians? No; that's sounding like a bad day.

And the usual variables can be wiggled: A better transmission cooler can be added without too much difficulty (and Honda used to sell kits for this, themselves). There's seemingly-reputable companies that sell air suspension (read: adjustable) helper-springs for many years of Odyssey, and reports are that they're not particularly hard to install (as a DIY, in the driveway). Weight-distributing hitches help a ton (literally), but IIRC Honda doesn't list a separate capacity for that.

There's other vans with similar interior volume and features that are stated on the door sill sticker to tow trailers better.

And there's certainly some things that trucks like an F150 can get very right. Towing is one of them.

If a person wants to occasionally haul a decent-sized camper around or something, then owning a pickup truck may be exactly the right solution.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#796

Post by dpark »

Amezarak wrote: post #785
dpark wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know where you live but around me I see people carry trees on top of their cars all the time at Christmas. It’s not complex. You put the tree on the car. You open the doors and tie the tree. You get in and close the doors. You don’t drive with the windows down because why would you? And why would highway patrol pull you over? I’ve never even heard of anyone getting pulled over for carrying a tree or anything…

Do you think suggesting people who do things you don’t like are just not as enlightened and rational as you a productive way to change hearts and minds?

Of course not. Probably more than 99% of online conversations are a complete and utter waste of time. I would assume there is literally nothing anyone could say to you that would make you get rid of your truck.

With that said, you admitted with your first comment that buying these trucks is based on feelings and not rational.

“Consumers buy what they like and feel like they need and can afford. They place an almost absurdly high value on convenience and not having to think about things like "oh I need to move this thing I need to go rent a truck because I only ever need to do this once every two years, making it irrational to buy one."

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#797

Post by hamdingers »

pmontra wrote: post #595
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

> Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers Do you mean that dealers ask for bribes to customers to deliver cars, or that customers bribe dealers to skip the waiting list, or something like that?

Yes exactly that. Either outright via "market adjustment fees" or through mandatory addons like $5,000 in paint protection film that's "already applied, so if you don't want it you'll have to wait until we get another one of this model and we're not sure when that will be..."

Then because of the monopolies the sibling comment mentions, you can't go elsewhere.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#798

Post by hamdingers »

adrr wrote: post #254
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

They should be cheaper than the F150 but Ford can’t figure out how to make batteries cheaply. Evs are a lot less complex, no gas engine, no transmission, no exhaust systems with hundreds of dollars of precious metal in them. It should be cheaper than a gas equivalent.

They're already pretty sparse, the only way to make it cheaper would be to ship it with a smaller battery. That's not an option because Americans are convinced they'll be left stranded if their vehicle isn't capable of driving 300+ miles at a moment's notice.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#799

Post by WorldMaker »

grogenaut wrote: post #781
WorldMaker wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might have been affected by the driving mode you were in? For instance, one pedal modes (across manufacturers) tend to much highly favor regenerative breaking over friction brakes. Of the models I've driven such modes often seem to give you better feedback in the sweet spots of the pedal curve when you are just rolling and not braking/accelerating. Additionally, in my experience rental cars are more likely to be i…

I wouldn't buy a mach-e to baby it and feather the pedal, like what's the point. I have several fun to drive relatively fuel efficient cars that are sunk costs. I work from home, they're just getting old. I have a pickup to go do dirty things like duck hunting. The ev seems great for driving to work (I work from home) or around town. I was very unimpressed with it's short trip range and efficiency on a hill (whole tr…

The point of mentioning the driving modes is the reverse of "baby the pedal", let software do that for you. EVs are software-defined cars. They have modes that say "don't worry about efficiency, just waste as much energy as I want" and modes that say "balance efficiency with raw performance". In both you can pedal about the same and the car determines how to balance raw torque versus battery efficiency and regen breaking versus friction braking for you.

Many EVs are just as fun to drive in "balanced" modes as they are in "sport" modes, but your efficiency goes way up. Rental cars seem to think you want "sport" modes that are more inefficient because you want to rev that 0-60 more than you want better trip range. That's maybe a good way to sell the EV as fun to drive, but it's not a great way to sell the EV as useful for long trips.

The trick is the EVs already offer both experiences in their software (because they can, because that's how they work), you just unfortunately need to learn the manufacturer-specific ways to change driving modes to get the most of what you want out of a rental car rather than what the last customer wanted or what the rental company thinks you want without asking you. (If you want both experiences knowing how and when to change modes is even more critical.)

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#800

Post by kipchak »

mrguyorama wrote: post #731
Amezarak wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This logic is only ever applied to trucks. The majority of HNers did not make an economically rational decision when they bought their Macbook or iPhone. Consumers buy what they like and feel like they need and can afford. They place an almost absurdly high value on convenience and not having to think about things like "oh I need to move this thing I need to go rent a truck because I only ever need to do this once ev…

I have a long history of sneering at people who ceaselessly buy Apple products despite their lack of economic "efficiency" but I "have a finely calibrated sense of value" ie I'm a tightwad. Being "economically efficient" with laptop purchases saves you a few hundred to a thousand dollars. Being just reasonable with a car purchase saves you $25k. These are not at all comparable to the average american. The average new…

I drive a Corolla (great highway mileage!) and will probably get something larger the next time I buy because it's smaller than most everything else on the road, both in terms of visibility and collisions. My person tightwad math changed after a drunk driver crossed the median and took off a mirror. If I did have children this would doubly be a concern, even if I could manage to fit the car seat and stroller in the Corolla.

As an aside the base Corolla engine for the current gen was formerly the 139HP 1.8L 2ZR-FAE and the 2L was limited to the "sporty" models but this was dropped at some point. The power figures are somewhat deceptive, it does a very good impression of a v6 under 3000RPM or so, but if you need to wind it out to merge on the highway there's not much there unlike a early 00s VTEC Honda or something.

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