Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths • Hacker News Board

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#791

Post by llamaLord » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 6:38 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #674

TexanFeller wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide is the ultimate “my body, my choice” issue, even more than abortion is. It’s monstrous to force someone with severe mental health problems to live if they don’t want to. I live an incredible life now that people envy, but I’ve had been through torturous mental health problems in the past. If I knew I had to face a year or two of my dark times again and I’d have 50 more years of my great life afterward I’m not…

The entire reason why the mental illness discussion is complicated is because with mental illness it’s not clear it is a choice. And this isn’t even something made up for the particular case of assisted suicide. The idea that someone with mental illness cannot make legitimate choice has been around in the legal system for a while, with mental illness leading to reduced sentences, and even being the basis of acquittal…

Thank you! This is EXACTLY the issue I've been failing to articulate.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#792

Post by llamaLord » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 6:40 PM UTC

MegaDeKay wrote: post #611

llamaLord wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As h…

"Some provisions are in place, including a requirement of having two independent healthcare providers confirm that the patient is eligible before their request is approved."

Oh well that settles it then, because TWO medical professionals could never get something wrong, could they?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#793

Post by zer8k » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 7:09 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #488

bluefirebrand wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a slippery slope if it's actually happening But you're right, the state isn't euthanizing anyone against their will, and they don't need to They can simply change incentives in such a way that people decide that it is what they want all on their own

If there are abuses we should strive to minimize or abolish those abuses. The alternative - to tolerate incalculable human suffering and force the loved ones of those suffering to stand there and watch - is unacceptable.

"If there are abuses"

So far there have been zero murder convictions for the KNOWN abuses. Bleeding hearts will downvote this knowing full-well the truth is that they are lowering the bar to the point anyone can be euthanized for any reason. "Mental Health" is an awfully wide net and described specifically in the article which it appears no one has read.

Unfortunately, it seems HN suffers from this pseudo-fascist "Altruism". "Ending the incalculable suffering" was the same justification the Nazis used for their euthanasia program. Virtually the same words too. "Mental health" was a reason thousands upon thousands of children and adults were euthanized. Sorry, this position cannot be compromised with. Euthanasia inevitably leads to mass murder. Very progressive of us to repeat history.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#794

Post by zer8k » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 7:10 PM UTC

gravitronic wrote: post #124

zer8k wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an appeal to emotion. While people should have autonomy over their lives we should not be legalizing assisting them. This is a path that is well-trodden. Many dictatorships have "mercifully euthanized" various sectors of people. It always starts out as the disabled, cancer-stricken, or unviable. Then it becomes a simple way to get rid of the people deemed to be a burden. Suddenly being depressed is a good way…

slippery slope fallacy that giving people control of their own deaths will turn into the state euthanized anybody against their will

It's not a slippery slope if it's real. They even describe the slope slipping in TFA if you are even capable of reading.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#795

Post by pwillia7 » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 7:14 PM UTC

giraffe_lady wrote: post #760

pwillia7 wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must not have dementia in your family then -- Take that as a blessing

Simply false, I have cared for a family member with dementia. What I remember most is their fear, fear that they were dying, fear that I was there to hurt them. I could honestly reassure them that I was not, and I wouldn't give that up for anything. It's presumption and rude of you to make these assumptions about my experiences, please stop.

Come on -- It's not more presumptive and rude than to take another person's feelings of their own dead loved ones and mortality and call it disgusting and perverse. Please take a moment and reflect on "The Other" and the fact that we're all humans made of the same parts.

I sought to ask questions and learn why your experience differed from mine. I would ask what your goals were entering into this conversation and if that's a quality you want to cultivate within yourself.

Have a great weekend :)

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#796

Post by pwillia7 » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 7:15 PM UTC

giraffe_lady wrote: post #760

pwillia7 wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must not have dementia in your family then -- Take that as a blessing

Simply false, I have cared for a family member with dementia. What I remember most is their fear, fear that they were dying, fear that I was there to hurt them. I could honestly reassure them that I was not, and I wouldn't give that up for anything. It's presumption and rude of you to make these assumptions about my experiences, please stop.

I see you're not the OP that said that so I am sorry.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#797

Post by aroberge » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 7:19 PM UTC

neverartful wrote: post #758

Olreich wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s another dignified option when it reaches terminal?

Accepting suffering as part of the human condition. In the Christian faith, Christians are taught that suffering is part of life and good things can result from it. Like what? Empathy, love, and compassion from caregivers, friends, and family to the suffering person. Also, the suffering person may express love to those around them. Jesus allowed himself to be crucified and suffered one of the most horrible deaths ima…

I accept your suffering if you choose so. If I knew you personally, I would even do all I could to help and comfort you. However, I cannot condone you imposing suffering on others in the name of YOUR religion.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#798

Post by dathinab » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 7:25 PM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #653

guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

There is a HUGE amount of things you can criticize about MAID specifically (and should) but honestly there are only a few reason why we shouldn't let the living dead go: - it's a slippery slope - they are young, they might revive (metaphorically speaking) - you believe god will punish them with eternal suffering or something, but then a lot of religions are fine with monks willfully passing one "through meditation" i…

From other comments I learned that the period is not a week but more like 90 days and required conditions are more stringent, too. Just in case someone reads my previous comment at a later point.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#799

Post by xboxnolifes » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 7:57 PM UTC

giraffe_lady wrote: post #762

xboxnolifes wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point it may be more than just hardship. 80+, paralyzed from the waist down, bedridden, bed sores, muscles atrophying, all of your enjoyments gone, your friends dead, dying, or lost most of their mental facilities, and you're completely miserable.

I have known people in approximately similar situations and they still didn't want to die.

My description was of someone in my family who did. So, they took it into their own hands.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#800

Post by deanCommie » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 8:10 PM UTC

lucubratory wrote: post #547

deanCommie wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? Or is this what anti-euthanasia advocates are spreading as misinformation around to acquire the support of progressives to their cause (which is driven not out of a care for homeless and disabled people, but out of religious/conservative mindsets) Keep mind: I'm not asking "Do those cases ever happen"? Of course they do. There's already been stories. The question is what are the statistics. Every policy, eve…

Comparing the act of people transitioning or people being given financial assistance to the act of people being killed by the state is genuinely sickening. Total inversion of reality and conflation of reversible benefits with literal death. The government has no incentive to provide better housing or disability benefits to the working class when they can instead withhold those things and watch legions of poor & despe…

I can't negotiate with people who have such a deep distrust of Government that they belie that the Government will kill it's citizens if given incentives to do so, or from pure $-based miscare.

This to me feels like a very dystopian way to have a relationship with it's government, and is a uniquely american perspective amongst the developed world.

The government is a proxy for society leadership. I expect human society to protect it's humans, and most of the world with functioning government does too.

The biggest threat to Canadian prosperity today is these american ideas percolating above the border and infecting the mind of Canadians who previously believed and trusted their government and no longer does.