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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#671

Post by seanmcdirmid »

flkiwi wrote: post #309
RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, my grand parents both died in their nineties and their last two years were really sad. It was not so much the physical decline but the mental one. At the end, while technically alive, so little of who they were as persons remained, they might as well have been dead. I fully understand someone in their 80s knowing the end is near choosing to leave on their own term.

My bio father (he was not a part of my life, which is important to note when you get to the end of this comment) lived to 89, for certain values of "lived". He had long ago exhausted his ability to support himself financially, he was blind, deaf, unable to get around town on his own, had substantial age-related mental health issues, as well as a litany of small but significant health issues. I cannot speak for him, b…

My mom died on her own terms in the states at 57 and her doctor gave her the pills to do it at home. It wasn’t as nice as dying in the hospital, but her life quality had been pretty bad for the last decade and doctors will help even in my state where assisted suicide isn’t legal (Washington state rather than Oregon).

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#672

Post by defrost »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #663
navane wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That concerns a small minority of cases, the vast majority is elderly dying people who want to keep their dignity. By steering the discussion to that minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water.

By hesitating to discuss, you enable bureaucrats to suggest maid when they want to save money instead of treating a disability (which has already happened in the case of the Olympian).

The single bureacrat in question was flagged, investigated, and removed from contact with veterans.

Their action in suggesting MAID was not policy, was rapidly caught, and was the subject of a very public inquiry.

Had the suggestion been followed up by the veterens in question there were layers in place, interviews and checks, to make sure that MAID was both desired and appropriate.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#673

Post by itake »

addicted wrote: post #665
larme wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same logic applies to capital punishment

I don’t follow. How does this apply to capital punishment?

Many people are opposed to capital punishment due to the small minority of innocent folks it eliminates.

> By steering the discussion to that [innocent] minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water [and killing the really bad criminals].

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#674

Post by addicted »

TexanFeller wrote: post #622
llamaLord wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As h…

Suicide is the ultimate “my body, my choice” issue, even more than abortion is. It’s monstrous to force someone with severe mental health problems to live if they don’t want to. I live an incredible life now that people envy, but I’ve had been through torturous mental health problems in the past. If I knew I had to face a year or two of my dark times again and I’d have 50 more years of my great life afterward I’m not…

The entire reason why the mental illness discussion is complicated is because with mental illness it’s not clear it is a choice.

And this isn’t even something made up for the particular case of assisted suicide. The idea that someone with mental illness cannot make legitimate choice has been around in the legal system for a while, with mental illness leading to reduced sentences, and even being the basis of acquittal in many situations.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#675

Post by mensetmanusman »

SoftTalker wrote: post #616
lupire wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, you're only a capitalist state away from propping up a tortured husk and milking all its family assets before tossing it to rot.

Oh we’re already doing that. Retirement communities, assisted living, nursing homes, they are all about that.

Solved by multigenerational living.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#676

Post by mensetmanusman »

caseyohara wrote: post #186
darth_avocado wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would’ve expected at least a waiting period longer than a week after a traumatic event. Of course I don’t know all the circumstances around it.

Who decides on the duration of the waiting period? Why can’t people be in charge of their own lives? Especially people in their 80s, they have earned the right to agency. It reminds me of OB/GYN providers that deny childless women sterilization procedures – even when they are in their 30s – ostensibly on the risk that the woman might change their mind about having children. Some people know things for certain and the…

“Walks out of bar drunk - let me have the keys! How dare you wait!”

Once you understand the neuro-chemical underpinnings of stress etc. time delays will make more sense.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#677

Post by mensetmanusman »

neom wrote: post #404
aaplok wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, someone has to. If you walk in very drunk asking to be euthanised, one would hope that they would have to wait until you are no longer drunk to confirm you really want to be euthanised. Then, who decides on the waiting period? Likewise if a traumatic event clouds your judgement (as some events can do), it's not unreasonable to make you wait until your judgement is sound. Then someone has to decide on th…

You can't access MAID in Canada any faster than 90 days unless you are at immediate risk of losing your faculties such that you couldn't make the choice. You need multiple specialists to assess you and sign off on it etc.

And sometimes one of the specialists can vote more than once to kill you to break the tie (crazy but it happened).

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#678

Post by anonzzzies »

guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

Why surprising exactly? Sounds like their life sucked at that point.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#679

Post by mensetmanusman »

defrost wrote: post #672
mensetmanusman wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By hesitating to discuss, you enable bureaucrats to suggest maid when they want to save money instead of treating a disability (which has already happened in the case of the Olympian).

The single bureacrat in question was flagged, investigated, and removed from contact with veterans. Their action in suggesting MAID was not policy, was rapidly caught, and was the subject of a very public inquiry. Had the suggestion been followed up by the veterens in question there were layers in place, interviews and checks, to make sure that MAID was both desired and appropriate.

This is like trusting people to behave while owning guns. Curse of knowledge writ large.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#680

Post by brady8 »

abeppu wrote: post #108

Note: the title should be updated. The BBC article title now says "Assisted dying" not "euthanasia". Often, the distinction hinges on whether the patient or a medical practitioner administers a substance that brings about death. The Canadian policy actually provides for both, but as I understand it the stats being cited in the article combine both, so only a subset of the tally are "euthanasia" deaths.

Some provinces (notably SK) do not offer self-administered MAiD, just FYI.
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