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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#791

Post by _8j50 »

Dah00n wrote: post #544
_8j50 wrote: post #475

If for example the EU instituted rules in the steel industry that harmed US companies, US politicians would fight back and start a trade war. Why is it not the case with apple? They undermine the entire concept of free market capitalism by forcing companies to do unprofitable things instead of letting consumers vote with their wallets by using alternative products of which there are many. There is no anti-competitive…

>Ferrari can make every part of the car unique and incompatible with other car makers so long as it meets safety standards, so why is apple special? This is complete nonsense. No-one is forcing Apple to make their screen compatible with a Samsung phone, or a part inside an AirPod fit inside a Bose headset. The owner of a car can by law use third-party shops and retain warranty 100%. The third-party shops can buy part…

You are confusing being able to repair with being able to use compatible parts.

You absolutley can replace parts in apple products. You can even use unauthorized third party parts (and if you can't that should change). What you cannot do both with apple and car makers is force them to make parts that are compatible with some standard. A car maker can do whatever they want with the car design so long as it functions safely.

> one is forcing Apple to make their screen compatible with a Samsung phone, or a part inside an AirPod fit inside a Bose headset.

They are forcing apple to make their charging and interface ports USB so that it is compatible with what samsung uses. They are forcing apple to have 3rd party app stores so it is like Samsung.

> You are describing anti-competitiveness and monopoly abuse.

No, you are. State sponsored anti-competitiveness is no better. IPhone users like how iphone works, those who don't can switch to android phones with third party app stores and usb ports. Keep in mind also how android phones in europe are much more popular than iphone.

The EU is coming up with anti-american company rules.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#792

Post by _8j50 »

hamandcheese wrote: post #477
_8j50 wrote: post #475

If for example the EU instituted rules in the steel industry that harmed US companies, US politicians would fight back and start a trade war. Why is it not the case with apple? They undermine the entire concept of free market capitalism by forcing companies to do unprofitable things instead of letting consumers vote with their wallets by using alternative products of which there are many. There is no anti-competitive…

Well, probably because the digital markets act isn't an Apple Tax. It merely provides more freedom to users. > They undermine the entire concept of free market capitalism by forcing companies to do unprofitable things instead of letting consumers vote with their wallets by using alternative products of which there are many If this truly forces unprofitable behavior, we should expect Apple to pull out out Europe. But…

> It merely provides more freedom to users.

Users already have freedom and apple has a minority market share in europe already.

> If this truly forces unprofitable behavior, we should expect Apple to pull out out Europe. But I would bet my life that doesn't happen.

Less profit does not mean no profit. You essentially expect companies who can't compete because of rules made to prevent them from competing to pull out? Instead of users not buying their product forcing them out? I hope america never catches that nanny state disease. The one good european phone maker nokia lost because users stopped liking it. Now all Europe does is try to profit by unfair laws. Don't europeans who like apple products deserve to use them as apple designed? It is absolutley deranged to think that forcing design choices on a company gives users choices. As if their wallet isn't good enough to vote with or there aren't alternatives.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#793

Post by BeFlatXIII »

johanneskanybal wrote: post #25

As a European dev I want apple to fail super hard and implode. They used to be so cool and make slick hardware for their nische but now I'm happy to use worse hardware as long as they disapear from the face of the earth.

I just wish they weren't the _only_ company making decent hardware. They've made the only laptop trackpads worth a damn since at least 2009, if not earlier, and PC OEMs seemingly have ZERO desire to catch up. They'd prefer to invest in gimmicks like touchscreens.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#794

Post by pcdoodle »

Shame these threads keep getting removed from HN. This is one of the most important conversations we are having this year.

Flamewars be damned, the conversation needs to take place.

Apples pivot kill PWAs shows their true intention. Web apps are ready to disrupt their monopoly and industry wide 30% tax.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#795

Post by BeFlatXIII »

niutech wrote: post #562
brikym wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't many small phones that aren't cheap and nasty. iPhone minis are small and premium which is rare. The android manufacturers really need to try harder. 6" is basically a tablet. It's really unnecessary for phones to be as big as they are today. UI designs have gotten more sparse and wasteful of screen real estate.

Being affordable is an advantage, unless you want to put on the ritz with a premium locked iPhone. For example Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact is a nice affordable smartphone.

If you can afford the iPhone, how does it compare feature-wise?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#796

Post by ajross »

paulddraper wrote: post #769
ajross wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That analogy doesn't make sense to me. Apple isn't pulling the iPhone from the market, they're breaking iPhones that were already sold. The equivalent would be if you said you couldn't sell green aquarium lights anymore, and aquarium light vendors turned all the green aquariums off remotely.

You can keep using your green aquarium lights all you want. But if you install their newest version of aquarium lights, they won't have a green option.

No, you already bought the lights, and they've always been green. You don't "install the newest version" of lights. Just like you don't for hardware devices like phones. You install software updates, which clearly have a presumption of not removing features for which you paid. That's just straight up common law warranty stuff, come on.

Again, this kind of allegorical confusion is generally a sign that you're wrong and trying to cheat. Which Apple is, clearly.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#797

Post by dangus »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #752
dangus wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, Android has something like 70% global marketshare. PWAs aren’t popular because they don’t really benefit developers/businesses. They also don’t offer any advantages in user experience over a native app. Apart from the economics, there’s no developer friction advantage since you can use something like react native and deploy anywhere. The kind of deep user information you can gather by installing a full blown a…

What world are you living in? Web apps are literally 100+ times faster to start using, much easier to share, much easier to market, and you can offer much cheaper services as apple doesn't take a large cut of payments. That's just a few of many advantages.

If what you say is true then you could find a platform bigger than something like TikTok or WhatsApp that is a PWA. The only one I can think of is Google.com, which technically is built in to your mobile OS anyway.

100+ times faster to start using: are they? I can type in the name of an app into my OS-wide search and tap “get” and that’s it. Swipe down, type “candy crush,” tap “get.”

Easier to market? What’s easier than saying “download the [name] app?” Arguably more complicated to say “go to example.com”

Much cheaper services? What is cheaper than TikTok or WhatsApp? Those companies make more money on the apps because they have more user data collection. Companies like Netflix go around the App Store cut entirely.

With installed apps the desires of the corporations and users pretty much align.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#798

Post by acdha »

xvector wrote: post #763
acdha wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, I would always choose to fly Boeing instead of Airbus. Bosch and Siemens don’t exist, and Mercedes certainly didn’t beat Tesla all-hollow with self-driving technology. These sweeping generalizations are pointless, especially because international finance means a lot of things happen at American companies offices in European countries. Does the fact that you’re using Brotli to view this webpage count for…

What modern consumer-facing tech companies have come out of the EU in the past 20 years, besides Spotify? How is that list looking compared to the US? That's all the evidence you need that the EU has seriously fucked up with regards to encouraging tech innovation.

If you’re going to lionize startups as the only thing which matters, you can’t exclude Spotify. And, yes, that list is very uneven because the U.S. financial sector has been very supportive of those but it’s not zero just because you don’t follow it.

This is an especially interesting time to discuss it because the current layoff bloodbath has not been evenly distributed and the European side which never flew so high isn’t getting hit as hard by the end of free money, either:

https://www.economist.com/business/2023/12/07/europes-techno...

The U.S. scene has more companies, of course, but in terms of impact an awful lot of those have been me-toos which haven’t produced durable value.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#799

Post by [deleted] »

troad wrote: post #786
browningstreet wrote: post #695

So many laypeople that I know don’t even use bookmarks. I’m a Linux geek with macOS and Windows in the house and I’ve never used a PWA. I just can’t get excited over this one.. technical, political.. Apple is doing what I’d expect from a company being told how to build and change their product. And since I don’t want to live in a Dell world running Windows paired to an Android phone of any kind, I personally am incli…

> I’m a Linux geek with macOS and Windows in the house and I’ve never used a PWA. I'm pretty techy and I'm pretty baffled myself. I don't think I've ever even seen anyone else use a PWA, let alone used them myself. And honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about them. Replacing native apps with web-only cloud services sounds like a bad case of 'out of the frying pan and into the fire'. I've come to hate what Apple has do…

[deleted]

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#800

Post by robertlagrant »

smoldesu wrote: post #714
robertlagrant wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think an app store isn't something people want, rather than something they put up with? What about the pre-app store world made it the one preferred by consumers in your mind?

> Why do you think an app store isn't something people want, rather than something they put up with? Because it seems to be that way on MacOS. On Mac, the App Store is absolutely useless and exclusively something people do not want. It does not distribute the software users want, it charges them extra fees, and limits the type of app you distribute. Judging by every single professional Mac user I've met, circumventin…

> If the post-App Store world is so great, people will keep living in it even when alternative stores exist

Bear in mind I'm replying to someone who's saying app stores aren't necessary in general:

> Well shit, what user needs an app store to begin with

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