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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#771

Post by ngetchell »

smsm42 wrote: post #743
ivraatiems wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever watch 12 Angry Men ? There's a scene in that movie where an unabashedly racist man is making his point as loudly and angrily as he can. One by one, all the others in the room turn their backs on him. When only one man is left, that man has a short message for the racist: "Sit down, and don't open your mouth again while I'm here." Nobody puts him in jail. Nobody takes away his right to make a living or hi…

> Nobody puts him in jail. Nobody takes away his right to make a living or his children or his home We're way, way past that standard. We're way past when ACLU was defending Nazi's right to speak and were proud of it. Nobody would even think about doing this now. In fact, if you defend a "wrong" client as a lawyer, you may lose your whole career now and become unperson among your peers. If you say a wrong thing publi…

The ACLU would fight for the Nazi marches against the government. These are private companies adjusting their priorities as a result of other people using their free speech rights.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#772

Post by tsol »

SinParadise wrote: post #95

De-platforming works.

Does it? I never heard of them before and I still haven't. I do know these lulzcow sites have been around for decades and honestly there are even some 'snark' subreddits that are beginning to amount to the same thing. Pure vitriol aimed at one minor celebrity, and occasional dozxing

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#773

Post by smsm42 »

nemo44x wrote: post #28

Real principled stance there from their CEO - 3 days to totally flip-flop? I mean, if your stance is we will ban content we arbitrarily find bad then just state it as such. Put into your agreement terms precisely what is and isn’t allowed. Be consistent. This “conflicted” act makes them look weak and of questionable leadership. Either take a principled stance on speech or put into your terms how you censor speech.

But why would he? Bloviating about his love for free speech and then suppressing the speech that makes him trouble is much more convenient. And why should he worry how he looks to you? What you'd do, use another provider? Good luck with that, think they'd be any different?

The reality is, we're moving from an early pseudo-anarchic ideals of early internet free speech mode to the pseudo-feudal setups where if you want to have an internet presence you must have a liege lord and must live at their sufferance, or you'll quickly fall victim to one of the roving mobs that live to collect the scalps of the likes of you. It's not a fun place to be in, but that's where we're at. And as a vassal you don't have too much position to make demands on your lord. You can change the lord, for sure, but there aren't many and if none of them likes you, you're out of luck. Welcome to the Web 3.0, it's not what you thought it'd be.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#774

Post by nickdothutton »

dane-pgp wrote: post #660
nickdothutton wrote: post #576

I’m continually surprised that Facebook, Twitter, and the rest dont simply create a web interface for law enforcement that allows them to delete (or more likely make invisible) content they want to censor. Noting in place of the post or tweet or whatever “law enforcement in your jurisdiction has deemed this post illegal and have hidden it for your safety”. There’s a culture war afoot, the government wants to insert i…

I made a similar suggestion a couple of years ago[0] on a discussion about Google banning a podcasting app ("after 9 years for letting users play podcasts that reference COVID-19"). Of course it's a terrible idea (which might be why you're being downvoted) but that's the point . If we don't want governments deciding (in secret, without due process) which apps and accounts and pages to censor, then we shouldn't be com…

I had faith. I knew someone would get it eventually.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#775

Post by tsol »

datalopers wrote: post #306
irthomasthomas wrote: post #273

I didn't know about this site until yesterday. After reading the thread that got them took down, I know one thing, I will not be letting my children near discord. I mean, if this is how people act in public[0], I hate to imagine what kind of stuff they are doing in a private discord, away from parents prying eyes. There's no heroes in this story. [0] Bathtub hormones being sold to minors in bright packaging featuring…

> I will not be letting my children near discord That's the equivalent of saying "I will not be letting my children near the internet"

People say parents have to parent, society won't. Then when people say they'll put rules on the internet people say "damn that's crazy you're gonna do that?". Sometimes I feel as though much of society doesn't understand how parenting actually works

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#776

Post by foldr »

richbell wrote: post #697
burnte wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech is more than just an amendment to the constitution. It is also a doctrine that knowledge and discussion should generally be free, and that people shouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs. Should be persecuted BY THE GOVERNMENT. At no point has any nation held that all people should be able to say whatever they want at any time with zero repercussions from anywhere. You can yell in a crowded theater, an…

> If you yell "fire" and cause a panic, you're arrested for the panic, not the fact you spoke, but for the fact you put people in potential danger. This analogy was created in an attempt to outlaw people speaking against the draft. My understanding is that it was overturned and is no longer considered a relevant example on the test of free speech. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_t...

I don’t think that’s relevant. The point is just that you really can’t shout ‘fire!’ in a crowded theatre and use a free speech defense to escape responsibility for your actions. Various other scenarios may or may not have been found to be legally analogous to this one by various courts. Nonetheless, the example still serves to illustrate the limits of free speech.

To put it another way, Brandenburg v. Ohio didn’t find that it actually is ok to shout ‘fire!’ in a crowded theatre. Rather, it found that a particular instance of speech wasn’t analogous to that example.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#777

Post by phillipcarter »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #691
phillipcarter wrote: post #289

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Good to see it.

This is a stupid clichee even on its on terms, but it doesn't even apply here, since shutting down Kiwi Farms does not just impose consequences on speech, it actually directly suppresses speech.

Kiwi Farms is merely being encouraged to be responsible for their speech without the help of a few others. What is wrong with that?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#778

Post by anon291 »

forty wrote: post #740
akira2501 wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, DDoS is a crime. Saying racist things isn't. We shouldn't blur the line here.

That probably depends a lot of the country. Both are illegal here in France (for racism, if it's insulting or hateful in particular)

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#779

Post by not_a_shill »

KerrAvon wrote: post #696
_vvaw wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of SWATing, harassment, and "driving people to suicide" this is a false impression, one that is intentionally spread by the site's detractors. SWATing and harassment is strictly banned on Kiwi Farms. The site owner aggressively removes such posts and cooperates with law enforcement. The leader of the campaign to take down Kiwi Farms is Keffals, a transsexual Twitch streamer with a large underage audience. Ki…

(a) There is no independent verification of those claims against Keffals (b) It’s irrelevant — this is about kiwifarms behavior, not Keffals

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#780

Post by phillipcarter »

bioemerl wrote: post #357
throwayyy479087 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech for speech you hate is also a social principle - see the ACLU Klan cases. Principles aren't supposed to be easy to keep, otherwise they're hobbies.

I don't understand how anyone reading someone saying something like this doesn't immediately picture some government organization with an authoritarian leader holding the exact same value while considering dissenters a harm to their society.

Considering DDoS is illegal where I live, no, nobody has the right to do that here! What does that have to do with Kiwi Farms?
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