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Apple, Epic, and the App Store

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Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#771

Post by anon98356 »

ralfd wrote: post #709
anon98356 wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you define as their game store. I can purchase a game that is playable on the xbox from anywhere that sells a copy. One of these places is the digital store that comes with the xbox. But I can also go to cd-keys, or amazon and buy a copy there that will still work on an xbox.

Wait, what? It doesn't matter where you buy an XBox game, Microsoft is getting their cut as platform holder no matter if digital or retail.

That's a licensing fee and separate to the discussion about market control. As it stands (although this is starting to change) a developer can sell the game through a variety of different avenues (online, brick and mortar, the xbox store), these avenues may have different prices associated and drive where the consumer makes their purchase.

That is the relevant comparison here, if Epic want to provide Fortnite on iOS they HAVE to use the app store and associated requirements. If they want to provide it on XBox, they pay a licensing cost for the proprietary tech they leverage from Microsoft. But they can choose to sell the game on Amazon if they want.

Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#772

Post by anon98356 »

lawtalkinghuman wrote: post #744
anon98356 wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you define as their game store. I can purchase a game that is playable on the xbox from anywhere that sells a copy. One of these places is the digital store that comes with the xbox. But I can also go to cd-keys, or amazon and buy a copy there that will still work on an xbox.

For now. Look at the PS5: the ability to put a disk in is a legacy that's clearly going away by Sony making it an option you'll have to pay extra for. The entry level model is digital only, for better or worse.

That's definitely true, and as they move away from physical media more scrutiny of what they are doing is required. But as it stands this isn't yet an issue for game consoles

Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#773

Post by askafriend »

Jommi wrote: post #403
misnome wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand these arguments either. It's not illegal to have high product margins, right? Why can't they charge whatever they want? It comes across as pure moral "I don't like it" objection, which is fine, but don't use it as a legal argument.

High product margins are usually signs of monopolistic powers used, otherwise profits would slowly move towards cost as time goes forward. This has not been the case with Apple.

What do you think of coffee?

Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#774

Post by MR4D »

cycloptic wrote: post #423
MR4D wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when a friend of yours wants to message you and you don’t have the same app, what happens? Both apps are free. Now you have to download another App Store to download the messaging app. Price has no bearing here whatsoever.

>So when a friend of yours wants to message you and you don’t have the same app, what happens? I tell the friend to call, text or email me. Price doesn't have any bearing because the market on messaging apps has bottomed out, in part due to Apple's app store policies.

I'm guessing you don't have friends spread out over several countries, where calling or texting is not a cheap (or even reliable) option.

And nobody checks email frequently enough.

But the point was a simple example. Clearly you seem to enjoy complexity more than me.

Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#775

Post by valuearb »

weixiyen wrote: post #767
valuearb wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct Apple Music has low margins (Less than 30%), but it also only has 40M subscribers, which is likely less than $5B in annualized revenues, or roughly 10% of total services revenues. So $50B in services at 68% margins equals $16B in expenses, deduct $4B in Apple Music expense and you have $12B left. Deduct $9B from revenues for Googles search engine placement, $5B more in revenues from Apple Music, and y…

I've not done the research, but following your #s, there remains 60% of the $36b unaccounted for. Where's that coming from, and what are those margins?

I’m honestly not sure. There is iCloud, News, Arcade, but those three combined shouldn’t even get to $5B, let alone $22B.

Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#776

Post by nodamage »

anon98356 wrote: post #771
ralfd wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? It doesn't matter where you buy an XBox game, Microsoft is getting their cut as platform holder no matter if digital or retail.

That's a licensing fee and separate to the discussion about market control. As it stands (although this is starting to change) a developer can sell the game through a variety of different avenues (online, brick and mortar, the xbox store), these avenues may have different prices associated and drive where the consumer makes their purchase. That is the relevant comparison here, if Epic want to provide Fortnite on iOS…

Even if they sell the game on Amazon, they still pay Microsoft a royalty for each game sold. Whether you want to call it a "licensing fee" or a "Microsoft tax" seems like a matter of semantics. Also keep in mind that their publisher agreement with Microsoft gives Microsoft approval rights over the game itself, marketing materials, and even packaging. And if they sell virtual goods in the Xbox version of the game they have to go through the Xbox store and pay Microsoft 30% of that.

The amount of control console manufacturers exert over the games allowed on their platform is not dissimilar to the Apple and its App Store.

Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#777

Post by Jommi »

askafriend wrote: post #773
Jommi wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High product margins are usually signs of monopolistic powers used, otherwise profits would slowly move towards cost as time goes forward. This has not been the case with Apple.

What do you think of coffee?

That I can make it myself at home and it comes to around 10cents?

Or get it from a cafe, and value my time at around 2-3€ per cup

Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#778

Post by efreak »

notriddle wrote: post #528
projektfu wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These arguments feel empty to me. There is only one source of software for the iPhone: Apple. The android ecosystem has no utility to the iPhone user. There is an Apple tax on every piece of software and every digital purchase on the platform. I don’t see where the competition is.

You didn't have to buy an iPhone.

You didn't have to use Windows either. Linux, BSD, etc have been around for quite a while.

Re: Apple, Epic, and the App Store

#780

Post by fluffything »

cromwellian wrote: post #684
fluffything wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be free like the Web, Lots of entitlement here. Apple does not owe you anything. If you don't like Apple's terms, just don't buy their products. It really is that simple.

"Love it or leave it." Sure fire mark of tribalism.

Honestly, i've been hearing the criticism "What you put a lot of work into accomplishing should be free" my whole life. There is a full sub-reddit for these things (/r/choosingbeggars).
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