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Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

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Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#761
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most striking things when reading about the French Revolution is seeing some of the original key agitators for Revolution being eventually denounced as insufficiently revolutionary, and some of them even being killed for being considered counter-revolutionary.

In revolutionary France the self-destruction process was fast, less than 10 years. What historical lessons can be applied to the current situation?

A Napoleonesque figure appearing soon. On Twitter, probably.

Only half joking. After a certain time, most people get tired and afraid of constant paranoid vigilantism and start searching for protection. Any protection.

And whoever gained positions of power from the previous tumult, will seek immunity from further revolutionary tumult, which is easiest to achieve by suppressing the worst Robespierres and ossifying the new structures.

From an outside perspective, it is striking how much the woke wave is waning compared to 2020. Trump is gone from Twitter, so a constant irritant has been removed, and people are starting to having a bit of a hangover. Plus the new rulers of the nest need a bit of calm for political business as usual.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Perhaps but i don't feel they deserve the benefit of the doubt. 14 years is a long time really, there are people who get the benefit of a doubt for murder after 14 years.

> there are people who get the benefit of a doubt for murder after 14 years They tend not to get put in charge of anti-murder departments, though, like this person being made Head Of Diversity.

well probably they tend not to get that because once you've done time in the U.S you're screwed whether it was for stealing a candy bar, dealing drugs, or murder.

On the other hand the exception to that rule would be - I've known guys who were drug addicts, caught, go through rehabs, and become counselors and psychologists in the judicial system. Which is pretty close to the scenario under discussion.

on edit - ok only know two guys who did that, but they exist.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#763

Somewhat tangential, but who is the right kind of person for a diversity job? What does a job well done look like? Changes in hiring? Changes in company culture? I'm skeptical of roles with a "my job is to care about X" kind of definition. That includes, for example, "customer advocate" and similar, especially someplace as complicated as google. I don't think they can have much success beyond the surface level. EDIT:…

It starts with an acknowledgement that the company has a problem with X. That's actually incredibly hard, because there's nobody in the company willing to say "I'm anti-X". If they did, you'd just fire them and call it a job well done. Instead, you need to realize that the problem with X is that it's no individual's fault, but the cumulative effect of a lot of little things. Each of those little things is easily dism…

First cool headed reply. ty

My question was more tactical than anything. Coding tests and hiring are a good example. Is a general purpose "diversity officer" likely to understand hiring, coding tests and such to improve on this?

An understanding of abstract issues, like bell curves and bias in testing generally is one thing. Getting into the nitty gritty, dealing with objections and finding alternatives is another. Don't you need someone that understands coding tests, coding, technical hiring and such to make a difference? A nondiscriminatory hiring method is objectively better, even if you don't care about diversity.

A person in authority, but removed from the actual task at hand seems like a recipe for box ticking, to me. I believe it could work for blatant, simple misogyny. For deeper issues like hiring process, don't we need subject experts?

Leaving workplace diversity aside, say the issue is application design. An application doesn't work well for people of different cultural or educational backgrounds? Don't we need someone with both an understanding of UIs and an understanding of those needs? I don't see how authority can lead someplace good. People who have never dealt with UIs have terrible ideas about how to improve them.

>I hope that answers your question. It's not an easy thing to describe, and it's easy to dismiss the problems they're trying to fix and not worth solving.

I appreciate you wading in. Most of the other comments have been quite depressing. I think what we need is more presumption of good will, and to try and carry less baggage from previous experience. People can be wrong but not bad people. They can come around. There are multiple routes to getting where we want to go. That's not to say no one is ill willed.

Lastly, I think not seeing a solution often leads to not seeing the problem... even though it's logically backwards. I also think that a deep awareness of problems leads to seeing solutions. I don't think you can use authority alone and force people to find solutions to problems they don't care about, or believe in. The problem they'll actually try to solve is "how do I me this person leave me alone."

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#764

A major reason why today's politicians are so bland and uninspiring is because they have been groomed to never say anything controversial or contentious. Trawling through adults adolescence photos and shaming/blaming them for some youthful indiscretion is another aspect of this societal disaster. The anti war candidate Tulsi Gabbard in the recent US election is an example of someone relentlessly ridiculed and destroy…

And if there was a referendum: "Political correctness should be dismantled", I guess most people would vote "Hell yeah!".

So much for democracy.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#765
post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then... do we accuse every American of bloodlust for our nation's warmongering? Or every Chinese person for their governments treatment of the Uighur/Tibet/etc? Governments != people of a nation people often / usually don't approve of governmental actions.

> do we accuse every American of bloodlust for our nation's warmongering? Not bloodlust, but partial responsibility. 'Tis the nature of democracy.

This is the illusion of democracy. There is no available democratic option in the USA that will bring about the end of US imperialistic war.

The people in the voting booths in the USA can no more be blamed for the USA's warmongering than the Americans who stayed home, abstaining, or people in the next country over. The US military is going to do what the US military is going to do, and to believe anything else is to be either ignorant of history or hopelessly naive.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#766
post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people change defense obviously doesn't work for Damore, who was fired over his actions while employed at Google Lots of weird comments in this thread.

Damore never backed down

Given his original point was that voices countering the radical left wouldn't be tolerated, and they proved him right, it's not obvious what he could back down from?

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#767
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? The norm in human society is to accept that people can grow and learn with time. The fact someone can be fired or shifted because of something like this said 14 years ago speaks volumes of the power of cancel culture and says nothing about antisemitism.

The fact that he felt qualified to lead a diversity team (whatever that might mean), with the knowledge that he authored such an article speaks volumes about his moral compass and lack of conscience.

I'd say he'd be proud of his comments and really surprised what is this sudden noise all about.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#768
post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a culture where all white people are guilty for slavery, this mindset makes sense to me Not all white people are guilty of slavery, and virtually no one thinks that they are. Essentially all American white people continue to materially benefit from a long history of systematic racism in America [0], including slavery, state-mandated and state-tolerated post-slavery subjugation and segregation. Heck, many living…

> Essentially all American white people continue to materially benefit from a long history of systematic racism in America [0], including slavery, state-mandated and state-tolerated post-slavery subjugation and segregation. Heck, many living white Americans are direct beneficiaries of overt discrimination in public programs, not to mention systematic, coordinated private discrimination. I come from a family of poor f…

> Because of my white skin, I "continue to materially benefit" from "systemic racism," and yet, where are these benefits?

Less likely to be arrested or incarcerated, less likely to be stopped or harassed by police, less likely to be denied a job or mortgage. Those are some of the major systemic privileges White people have that Black people don't in the U.S. The statistics are pretty stark.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#769
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think purposely hiring X group is a bad practice? From what I understand, it's not enough to say "we'll hire X if they're better than Y". When you don't actually have any X at the moment, your company might not be very welcoming to X, and so they won't join. So you purposely go out of your way to hire extra X, to account for the lower acceptance rate. The common response is "that's not fair to Y, you should be…

I believe that people should be treated as individuals, not collectivized into groups based on immutable characteristics like ethnicity. I believe that while "reverse-discrimination" has become commonplace in the name of diversity, it is unfair, divisive, counterproductive, and illegal under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. I'm not accusing you of making this argument, but the assumption that a particular e…

I don't entirely disagree with you. But by the same token, trying to treat everyone as an individual without acknowledging disadvantages due to race, gender, etc isn't a good idea either.

For instance, I'm trans. I'm not openly out when searching for jobs / at work, because I fear I will be discriminated for it. If I saw a company already had several trans people, and they were seeking trans people out and asking them to apply, I would maybe change my mind.

Should companies treat everyone as individuals, and say "if trans people wanted to work here, they need to apply"? Because that's how you get no trans people applying, and that perpetuates the cycle of "I can't come out, no one else in the world is trans". Sure, it would be better if companies didn't have to advocate for diversity, but until society doesn't have stigmitism, real or imagined, against minorities, then I don't think it's wrong to help them on the basis of their identity.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#770
post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what the author was thinking when he was writing it as it doesn't make much sense to me. Quite possibly not much. As someone who has hundreds of blog posts under his belt from a similar time period, a lot of it is just about churning out posts. Start with a thesis, write five or more paragraphs with little planning, do a quick scan for errors, then hit publish. I suspect we're looking at someone who's havi…

> My blog is no longer up and running, and maybe that's now a good thing. Instead they can just troll you over some random wikipedia edit war you were in 13 years ago... you can take your blog offline but not Wikipedia. :-/

Now that is so inside baseball I'm struggling to imagine how you'd ever get anyone to care about it. First you'd have to spend an hour explaining what userboxes are, by which point everyone would already be bored to tears.
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