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Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

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Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#331

Here is a classic case of someone conflating the state of Israel and Jewish people and lumping it all together. Plenty of Jewish people that live both inside and outside of Israel are critical of the state. People can be critical of the state of Israel, but they should not be antisemitic. His comments are offensive for this reason.

That is, of course, true. However part of the problem is that zionists within the state of Israel work really hard to blur this distinction. You can see for example arguments being made in that sense in this debate here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1VTt_THL4A Or the French parliament deciding that anti-Zionism is antisemitism: https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/french-parliamen... Even within Israel the…

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Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#332
I read the blog post and while the author's tone was a little bit harsh, I really doubt it can be called anti-semitic.

I guess that's why they re-assigned him and he wasn't fired. You probably don't want a "head of diversity" to be controversial in that way.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1998 I was running around Italy telling people that Joseph Smith translated magic transdimensional golden plates that a disembodied Native American spirit materialized for him. Six years later I became an atheist. I've been an atheist for 17 years now. As someone who has personally undergone an extreme change in disposition on something so fundamental with respect to how one views the cosmos, what you did or said…

Do we have any reason to believe the guy has transformed? Just from reading your one-line description of mormonism, I can tell you are 100% completely genuine. What's the equivalent for Bobb? Just saying "I regret having posted that" isn't quite the same. Maybe wearing a yamika for a few years would do it, I don't know.

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Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#334
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

‘too many’ is rather shifting the goalposts here. The vast majority of people are criticizing the government not the population. It’s unusual for people to consider a nation’s population rather than their government because a nation’s population is largely irrelevant. It’s not random Americans that have a history of overthrowing democratically elected governments, it’s the US government that does so etc. Israel’s gov…

Sure, but Americans aren't randomly attacked when abroad or out doing normal things, like getting food out or drinks. And yet, Jews are today. It wasn't too long ago that people marched in Charlottesville chanting jews will not replace us. Now there's a massive rise in violence

> Sure, but Americans aren't randomly attacked when abroad or out doing normal things, like getting food out or drinks.

Yes, they are. The US State Department issues travel advisories over such issues. It’s safer to travel in many places as a Canadian rather than American.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#335

Here is a classic case of someone conflating the state of Israel and Jewish people and lumping it all together. Plenty of Jewish people that live both inside and outside of Israel are critical of the state. People can be critical of the state of Israel, but they should not be antisemitic. His comments are offensive for this reason.

This is by design. Israel and spent years associating the _state_ of Israel with Judaism. That way you can’t criticize Israel without being labeled and anti-Jewish semite. Nothing he posted was offensive. Israel is an apartheid state

>> Israel is an apartheid state

Definition of apartheid: "a rigid former policy of segregating and economically and politically oppressing the nonwhite population"

Arabs and Jews are both white but I am guess that in your analogy you are referring to segregation of those groups, correct me if I misinterpreted your specific version of propaganda.

In apartheid South Africa, whites and blacks didn't live in the same areas and blacks couldn't vote.

Taking a look at the countries around Israel, in Egypt there used to be 100,000 Jews, they were mostly forced out by president Nasser, there are less than 20 left today.

There are no Jews in Saudi Arabia. During the Gulf War when US military forces were stationed there, the Saudis allowed Christian worship services but prohibited Jewish worship services for the military personnel, Jews had to hold services in ships offshore.

There are no Jews in Jordan. There are less than 20 Jews in Syria. There are around 100 Jews in Lebanon.

There are 1,900,000 Arabs in Israel, that is around 20% of the population. They have full voting rights, around 16% of the parliament in Israel are Arabs. They enjoy full civil rights.

Describing Israel as an apartheid state is anti-Jewish, and it is ridiculous.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority were not zionist, including my family. The Holocaust changed that. The premise of zionism was never "having a natural "homeland" because of your DNA." The premise of Zionism was that Jews could not stay in Europe, particularly in the age of nation states. Most commonly, this was referred to as "The Jewish Question." The majority of secular Jews believed in emancipation. The majority of religious jews bel…

The Holocaust definitely changed how the majority of people felt, but it doesn't mean that I can't be critical of that sentiment. Bundism also continued to exist after the Holocaust, albeit in a diminished form. "premise of Zionism was that Jews could not stay in Europe" -> the creation of a state where citizenship is granted explicitly on the basis of your ethnicity, in the form of a "right of return" is 100% the pr…

I don't think you can't be critical of that sentiment.

I do dispute that it was a a sentiment at all, at least in grandparents' case. It wasn't ideology either. It was just a fact. They couldn't stay in europe. A right of return to a Jewish State^ was the only practical way to survive, besides conversion. My grandfather considered that route, as an atheist, but his first wife dissented. He also looked very Jewish. That was their conclusion att. You are free to disagree.

The majority of post war immigration was non ideological. There wasn't much daylight between ideological and non-ideological zionism, for the most part.

It also (in my opinion, this time) proved true for 1.5 million people who found that they could not stay in Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, etc. The new world wasn't an option for them, as it had been for many europeans.

I might agree with you that nation states, or the common form of nation state, isn't ideal. It is quite terrible in its purist form. However, I don't see why this criticism is so often leveled at Zionism exclusively. I'm also Irish, and have never heard such a criticism of Irish Republicanism. Besides that, lots of countries' have rights of return, ethnonational symbolism, etc.

Meanwhile, most Israelis supported South Sudanese and Kurdish independence for similar reasons. Me included. I think that Kurds have been screwed since the fall of the Ottomans, because they ended up without a state. Lebanon was founded on this premise. Pakistan. Lots of examples

^Zionism originally called for a homeland, not necessarily a state, and hoped to achieve this as cultural autonomy and migration rights under Ottoman sovereignty. Nation States were not the norm, when zionism was first conceived.

+The downvotes are not from me.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#337
post #76

Wow, 14 years ago. I hope the current progressive correct-thinkers realize the takes they make today have to hold up over a decade from now, otherwise the next wave is going to cancel them.

One of the most striking things when reading about the French Revolution is seeing some of the original key agitators for Revolution being eventually denounced as insufficiently revolutionary, and some of them even being killed for being considered counter-revolutionary.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#338
post #37

Slightly shocking that he didn't get fired. (yet?) They fired Damore for writing an email that was tone-deaf, insensitive, but largely supported by research. Bobb goes on a clearly antisemitic rant, and just gets reassigned. Is Google inconsistent, or has their policy on how to deal with these things changed over the past few years?

> They fired Damore for writing an email that was tone-deaf, insensitive, but largely supported by research Damore was asked for his feedback on Google's diversity policies, and that's exactly what he provided. Most of Damore's critics haven't actually read his memo[1], but rather formed an opinion based on the character assassination campaign against him, a campaign his employer publicly sided with. Over the 4 years…

"Women, on average, have more: Neuroticism" was a big one I remember people having issue with back when this story was news.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#340

Will be interesting to see how Google handles other old examples of people writing things perceived to be offensive. Apple clearly has taken the opposite approach, with the firing of Antonio Garcia Martinez. While the google employee's comments are clearly anti Semitic, one can hope he has changed since then and give him another chance. We are too quick to condemn people for life due to their past mistakes. With that…

Regarding Garcia Martinez, I am still surprised "straight male" is such a disadvantage that being POC doesn't buy enough oppression points to allow you to criticize white women. Then again, maybe it's more that being Hispanic specifically isn't enough. I have a hard time imagining a black man getting fired for the same comments.

he didn't even criticize white women. he employed sarcasm in a book filled with sarcasm to contrast one character against the local stereotype

it's beyond stupid, especially for a company that works with Dr Dre

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