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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting presupposition, entirely unconfirmed by data.

I don't know enough about psychology to Google the exact term, but let's not be so pedantic as to pretend it is not at least a plausible assumption.

No, this is a stance that's completely unsubstantiated, with the obvious tie in to COVID-19 that's also unsubstantiated.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#762
post #330

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

My friend who works at the airport in the Galapagos (GPS) was telling me that no one has gotten paid since the tourism stopped. Luckily she can work on farm, but many can't. The local animal shelter there is now out of food, and the dogs will starve if they don't somehow raise money in the next 3 days or so (@patitasgalapaguenas on instagram, you can donate here [0]). The US is struggling in many ways, but I can't he…

Donated as I know how hard it is for animal protection efforts to raise money right now (we are a foster home for cats from three protection societies).

I also forwarded it to my network - maybe this helps at least a little bit more in terms of donations.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#763
post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna be that guy... given that people are starving, isn't immoral to ask that money be donated to keep shelter dogs alive? Surely they should just be put to sleep, no?

That's just how rich people are. "Cute" gets help, "not cute" doesn't matter. And humans are, for these most part, "not cute".

No. It just isn't following the "whataboutism" logic.

Following this we could say: As there are always young able people in need, why care for old or disabled people who doo not contribute to society and only cost society's money?

Why "donate" taxes for care facilities and such unnecessary stuff?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For ACA, policies, the grace period is forever. Job loss is a "life event" that lets you jump in any time, not just an arbitrary open enrollment window.

The grace period to start paying for a plan under the ACA is 60 days, not "forever." It's true that you don't need to wait for open enrollment, a special enrollment period opens for you when you lose your job. edit: I'm not sure there's any grace period at all with the ACA. You have 60 days to sign up, but unlike COBRA, I don't see any evidence you can start using the insurance without paying for it first, which is t…

I was talking about California. CA has no such limitation right now.

https://www.coveredca.com/individuals-and-families/getting-c...

  I don't see any evidence you can start using the insurance without paying for it first,
Because there's no limitation on pre existing conditions, it's effectively the same. You can sign up the day you get sick and have a free ride until then. That's why the CBO scoring was all bullshit.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#765

I hate how the idea of reopening has split down political party lines. This is definitely not the time for partisanship. Now that Republicans have come out as pro-reopening, San Francisco will be the last city to reopen in the country. 0 COVID-19 infections will be too many.

Why is it that you're afraid of this being "split down political party lines," but OK with the fact that "Republicans have come out as pro-reopening?" If the science supports shelter-in-place for now, it's automatically bad that Democrats support that to avoid splitting from Republicans?

No, the science doesn't "support shelter-in-place", because science in itself doesn't support any particular policy. Instead, the science is simply predicting a certain number of deaths or burden on the healthcare system, and certain public-health officials are recommending policy to minimize number of deaths, because their sole priority is to save human lives. However, someone else could look at that same science predicting a certain number of deaths, and say that such a number of deaths is an acceptable sacrifice and a policy of reopening the economy can be pursued.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that wouldn't just start a new exponential spread?

Cause they wouldn't open everything up at once and people have shifted their behavior for the foreseeable future. I imagine a series of flattened curves one after another through the end of the year will be what happens as they open up pieces of the economy, presumably with better testing and tracing to control outbreaks (still to be seen). Bay area new case count is pretty much flat at this point, and I don't see wh…

I'm not sure people's behavior will stay changed, but that aside - that presumed "better testing and tracing" is exactly what we are waiting for before opening up. It doesn't exist yet. Reducing restrictions while we still have up to a two week lag on tracking infections means that we won't know if it's going OK.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#767
post #699
post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they were attributing that argument to the people you described "rebelling", not to you yourself.

gotcha. I think it's disingenuous to effectively say that people are too stupid to make their own decisions regarding personal safety. There're growing calls to ease the lockdowns right now from people with top scientific credentials. I personally know doctors working in large hospitals who have said it's time to ease restrictions in most areas. It doesn't have to be all-or nothing. https://nypost.com/2020/04/26/scie…

If this were about personal safety, it'd be an entirely different scenario. The problem is that people's actions here are significantly affecting the safety of other people.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will do the same thing homeowners will do; not pay. I hope nobody on here owns munis or bank stocks. Or REITs.

The munis and banks all have a direct IV funding line from the Federal Reserve, they mostly have absolutely nothing to worry about. The gloves are entirely off for this one, the Fed can snap up trillions of dollars in toxic mortgages if needed, they've got the greenlight across the board for any and all actions. The Fed keeps lowering the thresholds (and they'll end up doing a lot more than that in the coming months;…

I work for a fortune 500 financial institution. After what happened during the last crash we had a policy of 365 days of liquidity. So far this time we haven't used the Fed firehose of $, but according to our CEO the Fed has asked us to start using it. I don't understand why the Fed would ask us to use something we don't need.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#769
post #720
post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the plan for re-opening then? If we continue to shelter in place we just push the curve out instead of flattening it. We need to start reintroducing people to society at a measured pace to actually flatten it. Don’t misunderstand me, pushing the curve out has tremendous value in that we can better prepare but it also has a tremendous cost. How many business and livelihoods will be ruined because we couldn’…

Gavin Newsome gave his criteria for reopening California, it doesn't require a vaccine. Having people die in large numbers is always worse then some people going through tough times. It's unfortunate our national government is incompetent and making it political. If the city is great it will bounce back. The bay area isn't the only place going through this, the whole world is

It's not a matter of dying vs not dying. It's a matter of people dying from covid or dying from stress related disease like heart attacks, suicide, etc with economic collapse. It's impossible to know before hand the exact prescriptive policies to minimize death over-all. Make no mistake, leadership is going by their gut on this. There are models, but the models are not precisely predictive, they are directionally persuasive.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#770
post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just how rich people are. "Cute" gets help, "not cute" doesn't matter. And humans are, for these most part, "not cute".

No. It just isn't following the "whataboutism" logic. Following this we could say: As there are always young able people in need, why care for old or disabled people who doo not contribute to society and only cost society's money? Why "donate" taxes for care facilities and such unnecessary stuff?

You're taking this too far. Stop trying to do that.

There is an island on which there are hungry people and hungry dogs. There is a limited pool of donor funds.

The fact that there are people asking for money for the dogs before all the people on that little island have full bellies is just sad.

The dogs will feel no pain from being put to sleep.

Nobody can, will, or wants to even suggest that the children be put to sleep. We will let the children suffer horrible pain before we ever even consider suggesting such a thing.

So every dollar spent on the starving dogs is a dollar that could have prevented some pain for the humans there. It would cost no money and no pain to put the dogs to sleep and ease the pain of some children.

So stop trying to bring the rest of the world into this to win the argument. This is a localised problem on one island, and every dollar spent there should be spent on reducing harm.

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