751–760 of 895 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So you made a bad assumption. Nope. You're asking about the immigration status of a guy we all watched get executed. JAQ off harder.
You find it unusual to ask about the immigration status of people arrested by those who's entire job is to only arrest people who are out of status? Him being in-status is damning to ICE, not the victim.
JAQ off harder.
It's the playbook already seen in Argentina, the Middle East and many other countries. But especially Argentina. The military always has in the back of their mind the idea that they are above people, and this goes from the most deviant and incompetent soldier who still has a 6pack and fighting abilities and thinks all the guys in his small town are wussies all the way up to the highest ranked general who begrudgingly…
This isn't the military. It's worth pointing out our military is very different than those militaries.
The Military thinks it's better than everyone and as a personality type they want to be involved in unprecedented stuff to 'leave their mark on the world'
A bad actor can seize such sentiment in a whim
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Possessing a fire arm and having an encounter with law enforcement in the united states has long been a death sentence. You can find a multitude of videos online of cops doing stuff like getting the wrong address and beating on someones door and when that person opens the door with a gun in their hand and then the cops open fire, happens all the time.
But this person did not even have a gun in his hand. He had a gun on him, concealed. In fact, the video shows another ICE agent walking up to him and digging it out and taking it away. The execution happened after all of that. The most likely situation is that he actually voluntarily told them that he has a firearm because he is a lawful gun owner with a concealed carry permit. Most gun owners know that this is the b…
People have differing opinions, however the opinion most persuasive to me is you only tell them if asked unless the law requires otherwise. Volunteering you have a gun when there is no requirement to do so in my opinion adds unnecessary tension to the situation. IDK about in Minnesota, but in my state there is no duty to inform the police and you can basically only downsides to doing so, since they will be asking before you get into any situation where they're going to be going into your waistband to find out.
In one of the states I lived in, IIRC they changed the law to remove duty to inform because their cops had a history of executing people that informed them.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
They had him pinned to the ground and disarmed when they shot him in the back, based off the various analyses of the videos. So the shooting is going to be very hard to justify (though they'll try really hard, and so will you it seems).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That gives them the martial law and unlimited terms they're looking for.
What unlimited terms? It seems like they can kill whoever they want whenever they want. And I don't think there are enough of them to fight a civil war.
Sounds like ICE's official word right now is that the guy had a gun. But the video clearly indicates that they all tackled him to the ground and were wrestling him maybe 4 vs 1, before they all shot him together. I'm not quite sure how a gun can have come out of this. Maybe the guy while struggling on the ground happened to reach in the direction of someone's gun while getting curbstomped, I dunno. What I'm most worr…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> I don't know if this is your intent or not, but by engaging in this kind of framing you're essentially saying that all violence[1] is excusable by default. We're supposed to live in a society where the opposite is true, I thought. > [1] All violence by your allied authority figures, that is. We both know you wouldn't grant the same grace and charity to the intentions of the protestors. This is a disgraceful ad homi…
> it takes a great deal of intellectual dishonesty to portray it as a defense of ICE in any way
Regardless of your opinion, I'll portray it as a defense of ICE, anyway.
> > So a U.S. citizen who is a legal, permitted gun owner with no outstanding criminal charges, legally carrying in public, who complies with the law and informs a DHS officer that they are legally carrying, is effectively subject to summary execution without due process.... a federal officer shooting and killing a legal gun owner solely for possessing a gun in their presence.
> This completely misrepresents what happened.
I don't strictly disagree with the idea that "solely for having a gun" is a misrepresentation, either (after all, the ICE agents had guns and they weren't executed), but it's not a "complete" misrepresentation. (The actual misrepresentation is that the victim was helping someone who was being abused by the agents and he had a gun.) Calling it a "complete misrepresentation" is seeking to emotionally prime the reader against the supposed illogic in the parent comment. That is indeed a defense of the ICE agents (and such defenses and excuses can be seen throughout their comment history, hence, I presume, the ad hominem).
Somehow, still, I doubt that's the framing zahlman would accept about the situation, especially given their (obvious) defense of ICE's actions in their initial comment. Yes, the ad hominem statement you refer to should not have been included. But it is surely not intellectually dishonest regardless of how inappropriate it is for this forum. Given the quote from their initial comment, it seems that said dishonesty cuts the other direction.
Sounds like ICE's official word right now is that the guy had a gun. But the video clearly indicates that they all tackled him to the ground and were wrestling him maybe 4 vs 1, before they all shot him together. I'm not quite sure how a gun can have come out of this. Maybe the guy while struggling on the ground happened to reach in the direction of someone's gun while getting curbstomped, I dunno. What I'm most worr…
Well it looks like it's time to say bye-bye to the 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms in the US, right? NRA and all that notwithstanding it seems if you're bearing arms you will be shot. Interesting times.
The Whiskey Rebellion, was bearing arms.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t know you but I hope wherever you are you’re safe and have a good idea of what your next steps are going to be. I’m getting increasingly distraught over what’s happening myself. It’s starting to affect my family life and I’m having a lot of trouble coping. Venting on the internet is a way for a lot of people to come to grips with what they’re seeing. I understand. If this is what helps you cope, I won’t stop y…
I don't hate you. I'm frustrated with your mental gymnastics. Because your entire thread here boils down to this > it just fits a pattern of “administration does something abhorrent, people get mad, social media amplifies the anger, it turns into real world deaths I need you to pay attention to how you're writing. You are laying the deaths of these people squarely on the left for how they react to abhorrence. And if…
> You are laying the deaths of these people squarely on the left for how they react to abhorrence
> Please outline what bait you think the left took that caused the death of Renee Nicole Good
> Explain what "Hatred" was leading us to this moment.
> The idea that the choice is up to us whether we get brutalized
> The idea that the best thing for us now would be to bury these deaths as 6th page news
I am going to reply to all of this in a chunk. And I want to picture in your mind that I’m someone in your life that you respect (friend, neighbor, loved one, doesn’t matter) talking. Because otherwise I’m just a handle on a forum, and faceless, like the car driving in front of you when you have road rage. It’s so easy to forget we are human beings having a conversation here. Please remember that.
The hate amplification is not causing these deaths. I never said that. I’m saying it leads to them, in a sense that it puts people in the position where it’s going to happen. A death can have nearly infinite things that can lead to it, in the sense that if any one of those things didn’t happen, things could have gone differently.
This is a very important distinction to make. It’s the difference between giving your daughter advice for “don’t dress like that when you go out, there are a lot of dangerous people out there” and saying “it was her fault she was raped”. The former is practical advice you might give to someone you care about, and the latter is the abhorrent victim blaming you’re casually accusing me of doing.
The hatred leads to deaths because there are armed men who are itching to kill liberals, and the hatred makes people think “I ought to go put my car in the way of them.” (I’m not referring to how Renee moved her car in obvious compliance with the officer telling her to, I’m talking about the fact that she had her car there in the first place.) Renee herself probably didn’t have any hatred in her heart at that moment, but I can nearly guarantee she had a lot of conversations just like the ones others are having here, where they look at what’s happening and, in an echo chamber, escalate the rhetoric they’re using. It may go from “ICE is wrong” to “ICE is kidnapping people” to “ICE is the gestapo” to “We need to stop them” to “let’s stop them” to “ok I’ll bring a gun just in case” in the blink of an eye (the gun part being something that’s more relevant to yesterday’s story than the Renee one.)
No, it’s not the left’s fault they’re getting brutalized. It’s the brutalizer’s fault. It’s not fault I’m referring to, it’s “if things would have happened differently this death may have been avoided.” One of those things that could have happened differently is for people to choose a different avenue than directly interacting with the armed men.
No, I don’t have a better alternative than that in mind at the moment, I’m sorry. I know people have to do something, but there has to be something that is less likely to result in deaths than directly interfering with the armed men themselves (yes, filming isn’t interfering, but I dunno, get a zoom lens and maybe do it from farther away. Because if you’re standing right in front of them it very much does seem like interfering. Or in Renee’s case, maybe don’t intentionally park your car in front of the ice agents.)