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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#751

Post by roblabla »

tiedieconderoga wrote: post #735
dagorenouf wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

They add another common standard, probably allowing manufacturers to choose between "old" and "new" for a little while. Similar to the switch from microUSB-B to USB-C. Budget phones kept using the cheap option for awhile, but eventually costs came down and people settled into the new standard. Not sure how it's done in the EU, but their legislature could delegate authority to make such decisions to an executive agenc…

> Not sure how it's done in the EU

That's how it's done, is my understanding. The actual articles of the "usb-c" law[0] doesn't even mention usb-c. Here's what Article 1 states:

> With respect to radio equipment capable of being recharged by means of wired charging, the Commission is empowered to adopt delegated acts [...] in order to ensure a minimum common interoperability between radio equipment and its charging devices, as well as to improve consumer convenience, to reduce environmental waste and to avoid market fragmentation, by:

> (a) modifying, adding or removing categories or classes of radio equipment;

> (b) modifying, adding or removing technical specifications, including references and descriptions, in relation to the charging receptacle(s) and charging communication protocol(s), for each category or class of radio equipment concerned.

> [...]

> The Commission shall submit a report on the assessment referred to in the third subparagraph to the European Parliament and to the Council, for the first time by 28 December 2025 and every 5 years thereafter, and shall adopt delegated acts pursuant to the second subparagraph, point (a), accordingly.

So the Commission (which is part of Europe's executive branch) can enact delegated acts to add new technical specifications for wired charging. USB-C is not "hardcoded in law". What's hardcoded in law is the Commission's authority to mandate the use of certain ports.

[0] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#752

Post by candiodari »

evilduck wrote: post #750
candiodari wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh you're giving lightning connectors too little credit. They also come with a LOT of logic to prevent people from charging their Apple devices with unapproved chargers. All added on top of USB 2 (and definitely against the standard, one might add) Like a lot of Apple and huge company stuff in general, it's a flimsy reason to change something and introduce many limitations the huge company thinks will make them more…

What? I've plugged lightning cables into pretty much any imaginable sort of USB-A socket over than last decade and have never encountered one that wouldn't supply a charge specifically to a lightning cable. Please, be specific with what limitations you're referring to because this is counter to all evidence I've ever been witness to.

They supply a charge fine, but no standards-based fast charging.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#753

Post by eecc »

DannyBee wrote: post #747
dagorenouf wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

Ah yes, that magic new port that dose something we can't do, but nobody can pinpoint what it is or why we need it. It's been a decade since a new port (lightning was 2012, usb-c is 2014). So apparently, they are doing pretty well! I think my answer here would "enjoy the next decade of benefits and worry about it then?"

Except that’s exactly what Lightning was in the world of (mini, micro, nano) USB2. Try again

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#754

Post by nickpp »

DannyBee wrote: post #747
dagorenouf wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

Ah yes, that magic new port that dose something we can't do, but nobody can pinpoint what it is or why we need it. It's been a decade since a new port (lightning was 2012, usb-c is 2014). So apparently, they are doing pretty well! I think my answer here would "enjoy the next decade of benefits and worry about it then?"

USB-C itself was that "magic" new port 10 years ago. EU at the time was recommending standardization on the abomination that was micro-USB. Luckily they didn’t make alternatives illegal, like now, or you’d never have seen your much beloved USB-C.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#755

Post by atyppo »

leoh wrote: post #727

Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

I think you greatly overestimate the importance the average American assigns to "superior functionality" on an iPhone. As important as it is to you or me, the average person doesn't know or care why they should have these features.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#756

Post by gregsadetsky »

madeofpalk wrote: post #689
vivegi wrote: post #70

From the article > In addition, developers may have to pay extra if they want their apps to be available outside of the iOS App Store, Gurman says. The statement is a bit ambiguous. Is it pay Apple extra or pay extra to the 3rd party to have their app listed in the 3rd party app store? The former doesn't sound right; It is probably FUD. Logically, a 3rd party app store could compete on significantly reduced fees rela…

> Even if there are signup fees, the share of revenues that Apple is today taking away from the developer would go down in absolute terms with a 3rd party store. I guarantee you Apple will find a way to still make the same money. Just like how in the Netherlands dating apps don't have to use IAP, but the apps need to pay Apple a 28% royalty on all in app purchases that don't go through them.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/02/04/apple-to-charge-27-fee-for...

Thanks, really interesting

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#757

Post by mig39 »

DannyBee wrote: post #747
dagorenouf wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

Ah yes, that magic new port that dose something we can't do, but nobody can pinpoint what it is or why we need it. It's been a decade since a new port (lightning was 2012, usb-c is 2014). So apparently, they are doing pretty well! I think my answer here would "enjoy the next decade of benefits and worry about it then?"

When this was first proposed in the EU, the connected they wanted to mandate was the "standard" at the time. USB Mini-B. Which is now deprecated and a few generations behind.

And the same arguments were made at the time. "Stifle innovation" and "what innovation, this connector is perfect. No need for improvement."

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#758

Post by MBCook »

afavour wrote: post #36
MBCook wrote: post #33

Duh? The EU has no jurisdiction over the US. So there will be no legal need for Apple to allow it here. Just like they don’t allow alternate payment methods for dating apps in the US like some other countries required and Apple had to comply with. The App Store is too critical to the way Apple sees things, they’re not going to just say “oh well”. I bet things are only open for EU residents with EU purchased phones. B…

It’s absolutely not as simple as “duh”. Not giving users a feature they want because it’s in your business interests to deny it is a difficult PR move, to put it mildly. Not to mention such a disparity in feature between different regions is pretty huge.

> Not giving users a feature they want because it’s in your business interests to deny it is a difficult PR move, to put it mildly.

They’ve managed it for 15 years so far. It may be crumbling, but this isn’t a new restriction or something that wasn’t possible in the past.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#759

Post by solarkraft »

_piif wrote: post #542
solarkraft wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(american voice) You're free to buy another product!

So I have a choice between a walled garden (for my best interests of course) and straight up spyware - unless of course I'm willing to play a game of "where's waldo" where I find the perfect combination of android phone with a model number which does not have a locked bootloader, good prolonged community support, custom ROMs with a good reputation and not just a bunch of modifications thrown together by some random X…

(still american voice)

You're free to make your own phone company! Just break the duopoly and get rich!

(american voice off)

I'm still on the lookout for an equivalent example of consumer friendly regulation that (even) americans are typically behind or at least indifferent towards.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#760

Post by leoh »

dagorenouf wrote: post #728
leoh wrote: post #727

Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

Good point. Laws are immutable and can never be changed.
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