Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#751

Post by yawnxyz » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

wikibob wrote: post #400

gnicholas wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

Jesus Christ. I eat well and spend maybe $400 a month on groceries and food. I’ve heard that Google recruiters attempt to con potential employees into some ridiculous assessment of the “free” food as a compensation benefit with numbers like those that you posited above. I can’t imagine valuing daily meals that highly.

lol I'm doing a bootstrapped startup. I ate: a can of tuna, peanut butter, greek yogurt, protein powder-based shake, and watermelon yesterday... maybe at a total cost of $3-5??

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#752

Post by thrwyoilarticle » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:07 PM UTC

slavapestov wrote: post #185

themacguffinman wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone spends a significant amount of time commuting by personal car to the office. I see a lot of angst about hypothetically long 1-2hr commutes when the average commute in major tech cities is ~30 mins, and of course you can always control it by living closer to the office. Sure, not everyone is willing to make sacrifices for commute, which is one reason why it can be a competitive advantage.

How much do homes cost within a 30 minute commute radius of FAANG HQ?

There's the rub. The salaries look huge but they don't take into account the mental cost of commuting or the negative externality placed on people whose environments are rearranged to accommodate people from outside that region. Of course, the salaries are the reason it's so expensive (fueled by the few who choose to live that close) but that indicates that the housing surrounding the HQs won't accommodate a workforce with a reasonable commute.

This isn't just some unimportant whining. It's the source of a large chunk of your carbon footprint. And electric or autonomous cars won't make that go away.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#753

Post by thrwyoilarticle » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

yakubin wrote: post #741

tootie wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will always prefer WFH for a critically important reason no one else seems willing to mention. I get to use my own bathroom. Sitting in a stall next to someone noisy is my daily hell. The worst is if the seat is still warm. I think may have actually avoided using a public restroom for 15 straight months.

When I'm at home, I wash my behind after using the toilet. At work that's impossible. Not looking forward to getting back to the office.

It's a shame. In the West, even the flashiest, most employee-attractive offices won't have a bidet.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#754

Post by vultour » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #196

BrissyCoder wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how so many people in this thread are saying they spend more on food while working from home. How is this possible? Does it vary by country? In Australia at least it is orders of magnitude less expensive to prepare food at home purchased from a supermarket than it is to buy food whilst out an about. Or are these people working for companies that provide food or something. I just don't get it.

My work pays for my food. Also, I’m busy working, so I don’t actually have time to cook my lunch, so it’s either eating something frozen, which is unhealthy and gets old, or get delivery, so that $30 for a meal. Also, my commute is a fifteen minute walk, because I absolutely optimized for not having to drive anywhere. The only benefit to wfh was seeing my kid more often, but that had its own caveats because it is hug…

My work doesn’t even pay for coffee.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#755

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #544

ashtonkem wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commutes also cost the one thing we can't get back; time.

If you use public transport, you can regain that time. In the UK you can get a seat on most rush hour trains, and even standing up on the Tube you can read a book, listen to a podcast, do your email etc. It's also good thinking time. Driving a car yep you're absolutely right, but if you commute via car a long distance for a considerable amount of time I think you're crazy.

Disagree strongly. I commuted solely via public transit for years, and it isn’t time you’ve regained in a meaningful way. Reading a book on a crowded train is superior to driving, and vastly inferior to reading a book in my hammock before working hours start. I also can’t work out, hang out with my family, or do all kinds of activities when I’m on public transit.

For the record, I’ve commuted via public transit (both bus and train), bike, and foot for long stretches of time. All beat driving, all are much worse than just not commuting at all.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#756

Post by capableweb » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

ryanSrich wrote: post #420

Elora wrote: post #303

Some here are being honest, so I'll be brutally honest: Covid has upset the master-slave relationship, and they're realizing they're giving up too much control. Yes, even the supposedly forward-thinking, progressive tech world. It's so much easier to ignore the BS of "company culture," "a new family" and other such nonsense when working remote. Plenty of people here have outright stated they work as a way to fund the…

100%. A lot of the people here commenting that they like forced in person work don’t realize they’re indoctrinated.

Yeah, for sure it's impossible that people have different opinions without being indoctrinated, simply impossible.

This way of thinking is why people who disagree cannot even talk anymore. If someone says they believe something, don't jump to conclusions that they are manipulated or indoctrinated, there are plenty of things that are simply _difference of opinion_, but somehow that thought seems pretty wild today, for some reason.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#757

Post by _jal » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #190

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

> For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting

This is true. I choose to live within walking distance of my office, and it has vastly improved my life - prior to this job, I commuted 2.5 hours a day, and that was awful.

These choices of course have complex tradeoffs, but you don't have to commute, it is a choice.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#758

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:20 PM UTC

jtr1 wrote: post #329

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time Well said. WFH doesn't fix a bad job or a draining company culture. If your job is miserable and you can't stand your coworkers then you need to find another job, remote or not.

I have fantastic colleagues and I'd still rather work remote. My commute easily gets up to 10 hours / week on a miserable public transit system. I prefer to spend that extra 10 hours with my family, friends, and neighbors, or on household chores, or hobbies, or just relaxing. I certainly understand that some people prefer the buzz of the office and I support people working in the environment that best suits their nee…

I’m also seeing a lot of sunk cost thinking on the part of management, and have seen a few cringe worthy “remember how great the office was?” stuff from execs.

I think when you’re a C level, the size and appeal of the office gets melded into your ego, and you can’t get the same boost from people working from home.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#759

Post by P_I_Staker » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

ferdowsi wrote: post #75

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

Since starting to work remote I've discovered the power of shutting down the work laptop (not sleeping) at a set time and not looking back. No Slack or work email on the phone. When I look back on hallway conversations, I can't think of many that really mattered. Actual important decisions are typically not made by IC engineers. Relevant conversations are usually inside team structures and not spontaneous.

> Since starting to work remote I've discovered the power of shutting down the work laptop (not sleeping) at a set time and not looking back. No Slack or work email on the phone.

What!?!? I don't necessarily agree with OP, but this is the exact opposite of my experience (mostly observing others). One of the main downsides of WFH is the "always on" nature of it.

I usually left my laptop at work, and ignored my phone before (after all I'm not at work). Now you're always set up to work, so there's no reason you can't respond at 8PM. I don't, but many of my colleagues do.

Most of my coworkers, especially the ones that would be leaving early for work life balance reasons, work all hours, and I get randomly pinged at 5:30-8 by people that would just be done for the day. They don't need to commute, so they have less pressure about working at odd times, and want to show managers the advantages of the WFH thing, so it won't go away.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#760

Post by londons_explore » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

twobitshifter wrote: post #748

londons_explore wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to reduce carbon footprint is to put a zero on the price of gasoline, diesel, natural gas and all other forms of carbon-based fuel. A 900% tax should do just fine. Just nobody is brave enough to do it, because it would be political suicide. Even if you gave the money back to the people in the form of tax breaks and social programmes, it would still be political suicide.

I don’t know - a carbon tax and telling everyone they’re required to come to the office just seems like it’s punishing workers even more. For many people transit it’s not available or odd fossil fueled powered. WFH should be preferred over a carbon tax on commuting - eliminating the consumption altogether is far better than sending tax money to the government and hoping that people change behaviors based on pricing.

A 900% tax would make workers tell their employers that they demand to work from home, get a big pay rise, or go on strike...