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Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#751

Post by jaggederest »

koolba wrote: post #235
jaggederest wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i... I think you're significantly underestimating the impact it would have.

Yes and you can recreate Dropbox with SSH, rsync, and cron. We’ve all read these played out comments over and over... So what game changing functionality do you think smart cars provide?

I don't think it's possible to understand from this point in time. I suspect it will be enormous - think advent of the automobile or airplane.

One of my bets is that it will result in people moving away from the city - one of the major drawbacks of rural life is driving distance.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#752

Post by WorldMaker »

arcturus17 wrote: post #747
WorldMaker wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs will never reach the price points it would take to fully 100% replace ICE cars in the private/personal market The Chevy Bolt and to a lesser extent the Model 3 have already hit the "Corolla/Civic/Sonata/et al" sedan sweet spot for new sales. The mean in new car sales has always been around and just above $30k. Certainly the mean in total car sales is closer to $20k, but that hugely because of the secondary mark…

> The Chevy Bolt and to a lesser extent the Model 3 have already hit the "Corolla/Civic/Sonata/et al" sedan sweet spot for new sales GM sold 18,000 Bolts in 2018 [1]. Over the same period, Toyota sold 280,000 Corolla Sedans [2]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/3/18166619/gm-ev-tax-credit-... [2] http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/toyota/toyota-coro...

The implication in the further context from what you quoted was sweet spot for price for new sales (not actual numbers of sales).

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#753

Post by _ea1k »

spamizbad wrote: post #634
_ea1k wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can't agree with that on the model 3. The model 3 is basically BM 3 series money, and there is nothing particularly phenomenal about the BMW 3 series from a luxury standpoint.

Are you talking about the elusive $35,000 model 3s? Because most Teslas sell for 5-series and E-class prices.

The ASP of Model 3 in the US is ~50k, if I'm not mistaken. The base price is just under $40k USD. In the US, the base price for the BMW 3 series ranges from ~40K to ~$56k for the M badge.

Also, the options packages for the BMW will tend to add up. TACC cruise is standard on the Model 3 SR+ for $40k. AFAIK, that will add at least 1k or so to the BMW.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#754

Post by _ea1k »

webXL wrote: post #736
navigatesol wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The part that hasn't been decided is where US production will occur. Point still stands: they ordered machinery when they don't even know what factory it will go in. Anyone with a modicum of sense or experience in manufacturing understands this is nonsensical.

I happen to have a modicum of sense, and realize Tesla has some serious management problems, but why is ordering machinery before having a location finalized nonsensical? It's not like this stuff is in transit or they need to buy any land.

Exactly... it would be crazy if they were ordering them without knowing if it was in the US or China, perhaps.

But choosing between two existing US plants that are a <250 miles apart? That might be strange, but it isn't nonsensical.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#755

Post by rtkwe »

WorldMaker wrote: post #721
asdff wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's eventually going to be something that happens when the car is parked, rather than a specific stop for charging/gassing up. I've already seen parking garages and street side meters equipped with EV chargers (although rarely an EV parked there). Ideally all batteries would be standardized, so you'd just pull up to a place and swap like you would a propane tank, but open standards aren't as inticing to investors as…

Swappable batteries likely won't be cost effective for cars for safety reasons, if nothing else. Most EVs have the batteries "buried" in impact-protected spots, with firewalls between them, and in such ways that the battery is reliant upon and sometimes in turn contributes to the structural integrity of the car. Even if the packs were standardized by regulation, getting safe access to the packs in most EVs is expensi…

The one spot I see swappable batteries probably happening is on large trucks where space isn't at so much of a premium and the charge time actually costs the operators money. In cars yeah the batteries probably won't be in an accessible area for easy swapping.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#756

Post by rdtfjgykh »

mtw wrote: post #564
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

Toyota and Tesla merging would be great. Toyota masters scaling and world-wide logistics but doesn't have EV technology. Their software is also very basic. Tesla doesn't control logistics but master EV and autopilot. Them merging is not impossible, Toyota once had a stake in Tesla.

Toyota does EVs well. They had hybrids for ever. They never moved into full EVs because there wasn't a market for EVs.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#757

Post by rdtfjgykh »

sliken wrote: post #155
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

I find the Panasonic thing very weird. Tesla claims to be battery limited, and also mentioned that their popular and in demand power walls are being throttled by lack of batteries. Does make me wonder. Is Panasonic blackmailing Tesla with limited supply to influence Tesla's battery supply in China? Is Panasonic and/or Tesla lying about the situation?

My guess is that Tesla is not buying enough batteries to make it profitable for Panasonic. They can endure losses for so long before bailing.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#758

Post by rdtfjgykh »

sytelus wrote: post #267
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

There is a definitely path forward for Tesla. They needs to be 1908 Model-T but for EVs of 2019. This means only two things: (1) aggressively lower the manufacturing cost and, (2) scale the battery production. I want to see Tesla that costs $18K and has a range of 300 miles. This would turn auto-industry upside down. I think this is completely doable.

Based on Q1, the problem is not production, but demand. Tesla's inventory is growing, which probably means they are having trouble selling cars they build.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#759

Post by rdtfjgykh »

sandworm101 wrote: post #116
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

A few more years of this amd they may be bought out by the likes of BMW. The tesla brand is worth something, even if on the hood of a german car.

This is probably the most likely endgame for Tesla. One of the other carmakers buys them, liquidates physical assets, and sells their own cars under the Tesla brand.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#760

Post by rdtfjgykh »

paganel wrote: post #350
golfer wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has about $9B in debt. They are not an attractive takeover candidate. They've never turned an annual profit.

VW Group’s recent Audi e-tron has to 30-40% lower range than a Tesla 3 (~200 miles vs ~325 miles) and as such I would totally see them putting forward the money to buy Tesla in order to bridge this big technological gap.

If there is a technology gap, the company that has the know-how is Panasonic, not Tesla.
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