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Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#561

Post by mcv »

neuronic wrote: post #469
_ph_ wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, you basically cannot buy a Hyundai. The production is far below Model 3 levels. Here in Germany, you are looking at 12 months wait time due to demand far exceeding supply. Also, the Model 3 is a very attractive offering. It is the faster car, aims at the typical BMW audience, and most of all, has the supercharger network available.

As another German I can definitely tell you that no one here sees a Model 3 at anywhere near a BMW in production quality. If Tesla intends to market the Model 3 at the "BMW audience" - whatever differentiates them from, say, the "Audi audience" - they are horribly miscalculating at what German people expect from a car. It is not limited to EV range. Also, Volkswagen is ramping up production on their Modular Electric…

Maybe not the Model 3, but the model S has replaced a lot of the Mercedeses that used to dominate the taxi fleet in Amsterdam.

It's entirely possible that Germany is more conservative than Amsterdam, though.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#562

Post by wil421 »

arethuza wrote: post #426
wil421 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a pretty laughable statement unless you’re in Europe and get the lower trims we don’t. Pretty much all car reviews put the A4 in the luxury sedan segment[1]. Not the segment with the Accord or Camry. Following your logic the model 3 isn’t a luxury car either. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15379432/small-entry-...

Obviously different markets classify "luxury cars" is very different ways leading to the confusion e.g. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/best-cars/top-10-best-lux...

Those are not mid size sedans. Some of those are not even Sedans like the Range Rover and I-Pace.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#563

Post by imglorp »

dagw wrote: post #552
imglorp wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has one more advantage over all the fossils: they're all in. The old guys are still challenged on mission, twisted up and fighting internally, bringing out weak token products designed to not hurt their ICE lines.

I think this is probably more important than people give it credit for. I have an acquaintance who works R&D at a traditional car company (but on self driving features) he says the internal 'fights' between ICE and electric are very real and damaging.

You can experience it first hand if you go try to test drive a Chevy Bolt - Motor Trend car of the year in 2017. I spoke to dealers who (pretended?) unawareness of the model and didn't want to help me find one. Another tried to talk me out of it. Finally one dealer was well informed about its pros and cons, and had several for sale.

Another example: bmw i3. 114 mile range on the 2017 model, really? And that's up from less than 100 miles before that. Painfully token.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#564

Post by mtw »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

Toyota and Tesla merging would be great. Toyota masters scaling and world-wide logistics but doesn't have EV technology. Their software is also very basic. Tesla doesn't control logistics but master EV and autopilot. Them merging is not impossible, Toyota once had a stake in Tesla.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#565

Post by arethuza »

wil421 wrote: post #562
arethuza wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously different markets classify "luxury cars" is very different ways leading to the confusion e.g. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/best-cars/top-10-best-lux...

Those are not mid size sedans. Some of those are not even Sedans like the Range Rover and I-Pace.

The point I was trying to make is that different markets define "luxury" in different ways - I don't think anyone here in the UK would call an Audi A4 a luxury car - even at its highest spec level.

Edit: Sort of reminds me of the differences in defining "class" between the US and the UK :-)

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#566

Post by LeifCarrotson »

hef19898 wrote: post #480
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

It still comes down to a race between Tesla figuring out the complete automotive supply chain and competitors figuring out EVs. Tesla had, and I would assume still has, production hell. Now it's delivery hell. Both are solved, controlled and executed constantly by other car companies (VW has an exception with the new Golf 8 that proves the rule). The competition is still struggling to solve EVs, some like Jaguar and…

> Both are solved, controlled and executed constantly by other car companies.

Executed for ICE cars and their components. They don't have the supply chains for batteries, inverters, or electric motors.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#567

Post by Brakenshire »

sliken wrote: post #387
Brakenshire wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the model 3/Y competition in the $40k to $60k range is looking significantly more sparse, especially with similar range. E-tron Q4?

E-tron is $74,800 and a range of 204 miles. Model Y starts at $48k and has a range of 300 miles. Doesn't seem like a fair comparison, does it? A fairer comparison would be the model S. The Model S base is $78,000 ($3,200 more), but has a range of 285 miles (1.4x the Audi) and 0-60 in 4.0 seconds instead of 5.5 seconds for the Audi. The biggest issue is the Audi seems to have very poor efficiency. So you need a model…

I'm talking about the E-Tron Q4, which is a different model from the E-Tron.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#568

Post by benj111 »

hef19898 wrote: post #480
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

It still comes down to a race between Tesla figuring out the complete automotive supply chain and competitors figuring out EVs. Tesla had, and I would assume still has, production hell. Now it's delivery hell. Both are solved, controlled and executed constantly by other car companies (VW has an exception with the new Golf 8 that proves the rule). The competition is still struggling to solve EVs, some like Jaguar and…

"And given the ever shorter life cycles in the automotive sector the window ever was max. one facelift / model replacement"

That assumes that Tesla's competitors actually have the expertise to compete.

Its been mentioned elsewhere I believe, that Audi's Etron has less range per kwh of battery, compared to a Tesla.

Tesla also has a charging network.

I'm tempted to turn your statement around and say there's a rapidly closing window for the other car makers to start taking EVs seriously. I suspect theres going to be a tipping point situation where the market for EVs is going to rapidly increase, and the established car makers better hope they have something they can sell, and at scale, because theres the Chinese as well as Tesla all ready to go. My crystal ball doesn't tell me what car companies are going to go bust, but I predict there'll be some big names, and Tesla could be one of them, I doubt it would disappear as a car making entity though.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#569

Post by dsfyu404ed »

kmonsen wrote: post #504
hef19898 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still comes down to a race between Tesla figuring out the complete automotive supply chain and competitors figuring out EVs. Tesla had, and I would assume still has, production hell. Now it's delivery hell. Both are solved, controlled and executed constantly by other car companies (VW has an exception with the new Golf 8 that proves the rule). The competition is still struggling to solve EVs, some like Jaguar and…

Sure Tesla can make good cars, but not if it has to sell them at a profit. Over the lifetime of Tesla, each car has been subsidized by like 10k from shareholders and 7.5k from government. Both subsidies are going away as we speak.

Tesla doesn't make good cars. They make unremarkable cars with good drive-trains. It's like the EV version of FCA's ~700hp offerings. Sure the interior and build quality are kind of crap for what you pay but with 700 ponies on tap you don't care.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#570

Post by sumedh »

gchq-7703 wrote: post #499
pbreit wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First US car company in 60 years, electric at that. Best crash test ratings. Highest owner satisfaction. First US-owned factory in China. Built in about 6 months. Ability and willingness to use OTA updates. Willingness and ability to put auto-pilot on the road for consumers. Ridiculous performance. Better chip than Nvidia. Top 2 auto battery supplier. Best selling lux car in US (ICE or EV). Dramatically better batter…

Sorry, what does `FSD` refer to?

Full Self Driving.
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