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Jimmy Carter has died

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#731

Post by swat535 »

foota wrote: post #633
silisili wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I've been asked a thousand times by leftists, I'll try to answer. I feel like at least the right recognizes they're going further right. > Democrats have moved to the right on topics like border control and immigration Yes, because it's become such an apparent clusterfk they had no choice but to. It's not much different than a child covered in Nutella, with Nutella all over the table and floor telling their par…

I strongly disagree with most of what you've said, but I think more meta, this comment is not constructive (in so much as politics/ideology is supposed to be avoided anyway), in particular I don't think posting a rant and telling people you don't care what they have to say is good. In particular, "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

Ironically you didn’t write a thoughtful and substantive comment whereas parent clearly expressed his opinion in detail. If you disagree with any of his points, which you clearly do, I suggest that you share them so we can have a conversation instead.

I’m not even American but just making a note as an outside observer.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#732

Post by dclowd9901 »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #715
GuardianCaveman wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote out a snarky response based off what I understood and then I did more research and he had a big impact. This is a better article to link to in my opinion though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter%27s_engagement_wi...

These articles aren't painting the condemning picture I think you are thinking they do. If someone becomes president, and a foreign government is already falling apart, and you talk about options and what might become the new government, does that automatically make it your fault? The Shah wasn't a saint, and kind of created the situation. If you want to place blame for Iran, it might need to go further back to Eisen…

Because it's not an argument in earnest. For some reason (maybe because a real louse of a president will be inaugurating soon), the right has suddenly taken up a vendetta against Carter. I've seen him blamed for every problem in world at the time, including the Asaba Massacre and the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge.

No president has ever done everything right, but no president has also spent their retirement years devoted to public service. Hell, almost no _normal people_ do that.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#733

Post by MrMcCall »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #715
GuardianCaveman wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote out a snarky response based off what I understood and then I did more research and he had a big impact. This is a better article to link to in my opinion though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter%27s_engagement_wi...

These articles aren't painting the condemning picture I think you are thinking they do. If someone becomes president, and a foreign government is already falling apart, and you talk about options and what might become the new government, does that automatically make it your fault? The Shah wasn't a saint, and kind of created the situation. If you want to place blame for Iran, it might need to go further back to Eisen…

Well said, friend. Thank you for expanding my understanding of the situation.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#734

Post by edanm »

bhouston wrote: post #728
edanm wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Netanyahu is a hard case. Here is what Aluf Benn wrote in Haaretz recently: Maybe. Haaretz is on the Israeli left, and extremely critical of Netanyahu. That doesn't necessarily mean this is wrong - but it's like citing Fox's critique of Biden's motivations, or MSNBC's critique of Trump's motivations, as authoritative fact. Even if what he's writing is true - this is probably a "new" motivation and not some underlyi…

I would like to see a two-state solution, but I think we are much more likely to see annexation of the West Bank to Israel. There is some chance Donald Trump somehow becomes the peace maker of the century, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It is likely that much of Gaza is annexed for settlements as well unless something meaningfully changes. We can check on these prediction in a year or so. Because we cannot prove anyt…

Yes.

I don't think a two-state solution is likely, definitely not anytime soon. My one big hope is that, whether because of Trump's pressure or not, we manage to get a combined ceasefire + hostage deal + Saudi Arabia normalization + genuine path to a two-state solution (which the Saudis have said is a precondition for normalization).

Do I think it's likely? Not very. I don't think annexation of the West Bank is likely either. But as you said, who knows?

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#735

Post by swat535 »

data_maan wrote: post #609
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like the left moved left, the right moved right, The only leftist pandering that Kamala offered was getting rid of taxes on tips (something that Trump offered first, actually), she seemed fairly center, or even a bit right of center (putting off far lefties) as Democrat presidential candidates are usually these days. Trump, likewise, didn't really veer right, he actually veered a bit left in offering to lower price…

> well, except for the ultra nationalism and also excepting the fact that he wants to end abortion, be a dictator, end elections, and drill babay drill. Other than that he's very left. Very.

How are you reaching these conclusions?

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#736

Post by bpodgursky »

anonu wrote: post #669
bpodgursky wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. They had to replace the roof, and they didn't reinstall them. (they were also not "solar panels" it was solar water heating and it was sorta useful but mostly symbolic).

No the Carter solar panels were electric and not solar thermal.

No, they were solar heating panels. This is so easy to look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#737

Post by stetrain »

FilosofumRex wrote: post #674

I often use President Carter's legacy to educate young & idealistic Democrats about how to be a progressive populist, in the traditional meaning of those words. I ask them to lookup how much money Obama raised from Wall Street tycoons to be elected and how much more he has pocketed from them by giving banal speeches about "hope" & "change", vs how much Jimmy Carter did. Most young Democrats (college or 20 somethings)…

> Opposed single payer healthcare for uninsured

Wasn't single payer healthcare for all one of his main campaign points?

It didn't have the votes to pass Congress and we ended up with the ACA instead, but as I recall there was a push for it.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#739

Post by UncleOxidant »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #719
mulmen wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is also a major reason why Trump got elected: people have so little trust in the current system that they'd rather vote for somebody who promises to break it, than for somebody who promises to improve it. I agree this is what appears to have happened but I still can’t follow the logic. What happens next? Who builds the next system and why should we expect it will be any better?

My impression is that a lot of people are just hoping for everything to go to hell to the point where fundamental changes become inevitable, and they're assuming that these fundamental changes will likely be beneficial to them. I'm not sure if this is evidence of how bad people think the status quo is, or if it is evidence of how naive most people are.

> they're assuming that these fundamental changes will likely be beneficial to them.

That rarely works out. When a country collapses the ensuing is chaos going to be a very rough time. Recent examples include the collapse of the Soviet Union. The 90s were really bad for people there. A lot of them moved here to the US to escape that and try to find a better life. I worked with some of them. And now what do they have in Russia? A dictatorship that's not any better than what they had in Soviet times - certainly worse than what they had under Gorbachev.

People who assume that something better will rise out of the ashes of collapse, but that rarely happens. Better to try to work to make the system you have better even if in small ways.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#740

Post by siltcakes »

edanm wrote: post #727
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro-Israel, as far as the government is, is inherently an anti-two-state-solution position. How can there be peace with 2-3 million stateless people who have no way to defend themselves against a hostile nation? You're talking about what Palestinians inherently "want", but that's not really related to peace. Peace exists when nations can deter each other. The USSR and the USA had peace despite each "wanting" to destr…

> Pro-Israel, as far as the government is, is inherently an anti-two-state-solution position. I'm definitely pro-Israel and anti-the-current-Israeli-government. I think terminology-wise, if I said I were anti-US, most would not equate it to being anti-Biden or anti-Trump, but rather anti-the-country-itself. So I think saying "anti-Israel" when you mean "anti-the-current-Israeli-government" is a bad way to phrase it.…

You didn’t mention Nakba which is the core issue. Israel cannot exist on stolen land and be pro-peace. It really is as simple as that.
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