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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#721
post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been broadly under the impression that the HR department was a waste of air, but I suppose conflict resolution is perhaps something they'd be useful for. ...maybe.

The main job of HR is prevent the company from entering lawsuits with (former) employees. Anything else is just window dressing. Most HR organizations like to act like they are an impartial judge in conflict situations, but they're on the company payroll after all. So while for a single employee HR might seem like a waste of air, it's elementary for any business with a reasonable number of employees.

While you are right to note that the person signing your checks holds many of the strings, it is also true that each employee is an autonomous unit with values that they live by and advocate for, resources that they control and steward, and a contract for value exchanged.

An HR department absolutely works to protect the company, but a good HR department will also work to protect the employees, because in the long view that is also beneficial to the company. And many HR people who I've talked to specifically enjoy their jobs because they like working to make employees lives better. Where their directives conflict with that they will try to fight the directives.

Certainly in some cases where there is a unresolvable conflict between employee and employer, HR will work against the employee. But for a good HR department those situations should be very few. A good HR department will be able to project forward into a long enough view that they can find ways to move forward amicably that protect both the employee and the employer, to everyone's benefit.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#722
So she and another woman at work develop a bitter feud in which the other woman has the upper hand. Horvath reinterprets it as sexism and takes it to the press to hurt GitHub. If Horvath were a man, there is no way that HN would show this kind of support.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#723
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow, furtive glances doesn't come across much better.

Try getting sternly lectured for 10 minutes because because you held the door open for a stranger to be polite. That's when you know shit gotten real. For the record, I routinely hold open doors for people that I know are behind me and are leaving/entering a building. It surprised me to know end to get yelled at for it.

A woman yelled at you for holding the door for her? Really? What were you wearing? Had you been drinking that day? How long were you dating her?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Sun, where there was a structured management chain, there was a time when one of the folks in my group reverted a big chunk of changes I had committed, and I went to our common manager and demanded satisfaction. The response was 'if we left them in he threatened to quit, there isn't anything we can do', and the only conclusion from that statement was that if one of us quit, the manager would rather it were me than…

And thus "threatening to quit" becomes the way for the crazy dudes to get whatever they want.

They're not crazy, and it only works if they have more political capital than you do. If I was forced to accept substandard work, and had no other choice but either maintain that bad code, or quit, I'd threaten to quit too.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#725
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The founder has a good point: try to avoid dating someone working with you Could not disagree more. It's none of the founder's business and the culture in the US that tries to forbid this is sick.

It's not "sick". It's that it's rife with problems. I don't think companies should ban dating but I think it's very wise for them to be wary of it happening and educate their employees, before they start, to imagine what happens if that person becomes their boss or subordinate or breaks up with them and they have to see them everyday at work and work together. And/or starts dating someone else. Or is their superior a…

15 upvotes disagree with you. It's a denial of life and humanity in the pure interest of the business. It's sick.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#726
post #288

While the 'wife' aspect has drawn a lot of attention, it seems that through her marriage she may essentially have a founder's level of equity in the company. I don't know the personalities involved, but she might also have relevant professional experience, and/or have been genuinely helpful in handling thorny issues in the past (even if this case clearly escalated into many kinds of mutual suspicion and recrimination…

> it seems that through her marriage she may essentially have a founder's level of equity in the company What about the founder's mom? Or the founder's father? Or the founder's children? Or the founder's dear grandma? There's a reason why equity and investor/adviser roles should be clear and formalized. Bringing cookies at your spouse's work place doesn't entitle you to anything more than polite greetings.

Depends; the marital union is unique (in law and practice), and you haven't said whether the other hypotheticals I posited (de facto large equity position, industry expertise, or a tradition of being effectively helpful) may also exist.

Mixing business with family is always fraught with danger. But it works for a lot of startups.

It's often better to formalize roles & titles, to help everyone reach similar knowledge about real power/responsibility – rather than relying on tacit knowledge, which varies with tenure, social skills, and (in the extreme) romantic relationships. But lots of startups have done well with, and even earned praise and fame for, their low-formalities, low-titles, low-hierarchy, environment.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#727

I'm glad that at least some of the commenters try to wait for both sides of the story before grabbing a pitchfork.

When only one side of the story is presented, it leaves everyone to piece it together and look at what was presented critically. If we just take whatever anyone says at face value when they aren't disclosing everything, we are definitely going to make unfair decisions

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#728
post #293

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…

> This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff.

Completely ridiculous and unprofessional.

But, not sexist. Just terrible.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#729
post #226

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

I, as a male, try to avoid staring at another female because I fear someone like Horvath accuses me of sexism. This is, sadly, the best thing to do because you don't know who is going to take offense. PS: To avoid looking one-sided and narrow (which I believe I'm not) I really feel bad about this whole situation and the lady who had to go through that. Personally liked a github as a company.

> This is, sadly, the best thing to do because you don't know who is going to take offense.

I know you mean well, but your sadness to me belies some ignorance about what it's like to be a woman working in a male dominated field. You'd like to live in a world where you can casually watch beautiful people doing beautiful things. I don't begrudge you that, and I wouldn't accuse you of sexism.

That said, I have zero interest in watching women hula hoop at work. None. Not because I am incapable of enjoying a show like that, but because I desire so deeply to work in an environment where woman can just kick ass at their jobs without having to deal with sexual politics. We're nowhere near that point as a culture, but that's where I want to be.

So I'm not sad that I can't watch women hula hoop at work. I'm really excited to have positive, professional interactions with women at work about their actual jobs.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#730

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

Ben Horowitz "How to Minimize Politics in Your Company"

http://www.bhorowitz.com/how_to_minimize_politics_in_your_co...

Great article and very relevant here.

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