Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit • Hacker News Board

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#331

Post by rasur » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 9:53 AM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #286

yawz wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While the founder is right about avoiding dating someone in your own company This is one of my pet peeves. This is a professional setting and the employees are not 13. They should be mature enough to be able to handle their personal lives without bans or frown upons. Someone can't handle rejection? Who says he/she can handle criticism? What about disagreements? To me this is a personality problem that should be deal…

Actually people are 13. When it comes to social behavior adults are just tall children.

I tend to favour the term "Savage Infants" personally, but "Tall Children" is a winner too, I shall remember that one.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#332

Post by wmkn » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 9:53 AM UTC

jd0 wrote: post #247

yeukhon wrote: post #183

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

To clarify for many of you, you don't need someone shouting "I HATE WOMEN" for sexism to be occurring. The sexism in this scenario is subtle and persistent, something that likely tainted all of the workplace interactions at github, allowing a female employee's problems at work to be continually ignored. This eventually built up to the issue most people are focusing on, a founders spouse being allowed to harass an emp…

> The hula hooping moment was important because it visibly demonstrated her male coworkers lack of respect for women as people.

Maybe hula-hooping is a common occurrence in Silicon Valley offices, but if my co-workers would be hula-hooping I would be looking as well (regardless whether they are male or female). Probably I would be thinking 'why on earth are you hula-hooping in you workplace instead of working'. I guess there is a fine line between gawking and looking.

Don't get me wrong - the entire situation she describes sound horrible but the hula-hooping did not sound very professional in the first place.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#333

Post by mantrax » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 9:54 AM UTC

droopyEyelids wrote: post #4

Earlier I thought I wanted to know more about the situation. That was wrong.

Exactly.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#334

Post by vacri » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 9:54 AM UTC

atomaka wrote: post #263

jd0 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I, as a male, try not to stare at anybody because I'm not a fucking asshole.

We bow to your perfection.

It really isn't that hard not to stare at people. It doesn't take a perfectionist.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#335

Post by Nursie » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 9:57 AM UTC

yeukhon wrote: post #183

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

>>The founder has a good point: try to avoid dating someone working with you

Could not disagree more. It's none of the founder's business and the culture in the US that tries to forbid this is sick.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#336

Post by jsmthrowaway » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 9:57 AM UTC

unfunco wrote: post #239

rdl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather just have a "zero fuckwits rule" in hiring. It sounds like Github breached that rule, leading to this problem. You could possibly avoid all sexual harassment by having only men in the workplace, but if they were still fuckwits and assholes, you'd have other employment problems.

Spotting a fuckwit during a best-behaviour interview is difficult.

I've found Twitter timelines to be useful in this regard.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#337

Post by ZoF » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 9:59 AM UTC

jd0 wrote: post #168

pbateman wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

socially inept Good to see we're staying classy. Next time you might like to work in a zinger about autism, neckbeards and/or fedora ownership.

You put those words in my mouth, buddy. To clarify, social ineptitude combined with a degree of self-assured narcissism, resulting in a total disregard for the opinions of other people which don't jive with the most "logical" worldview. It's possible to be socially introverted and still considerate to other people.

You don't think classifying the vast majority of this readership as victim-blaming sexists would qualify as slightly inconsiderate?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#338

Post by nknighthb » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 10:00 AM UTC

lsiebert wrote: post #329

nknighthb wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being ridiculous. Emergency reverts are normal and expected when production systems are down. I'm willing to stipulate this person's specific actions were probably hostile and unwarranted, but some sort of blanket "no revert without discussion" rule is just a way to cost your employer customers. Context is important, and we don't have enough of it to be certain of what happened.

There may be legit reasons, but we have no indication that the reasons were legit. We do have someone involved who says they weren't. We should assume she is being truthful and accurate unless there is a reason to doubt her. If github says the reverts were legit, then that's different, but you should go with the best information we have, instead of trying to find an excuse not to believe her based on no evidence.

I'm quite certain you've either mistaken me for someone else, or are looking for an excuse to argue with me based on a willful misinterpretation of my comment.

I'm even more certain that going through life believing everything you hear is not going to get you the results you want.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#339

Post by bowlofpetunias » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 10:04 AM UTC

megablast wrote: post #295

sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> "Oh, okay, I'll talk to him and make sure it stops." Can I come live in your world where everything is solved by a quick talk.

A lot of problems can be solved (or prevented) by a talk at the right moment.

It's supposed to be part the of the skill set of those people called "managers". You know, the people we don't need. Until we do.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#340

Post by RodericDay » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 10:05 AM UTC

theorique wrote: post #79

asimov42 wrote: post #41

That hula hoops bit was a bit... strange. If it were a couple of attractive girls I probably would also find myself staring. I mean, its just not something you see everyday working at an office. I understand being stared at is uncomfortable too, and they should feel free to do whatever they want of course. It just sounds like how unattractive people "stare creepily" while attractive people "look."

Watching your co-workers as they hula-hoop in the office doesn't sound terribly sexist or out of the ordinary [1]. Hula hooping in the office is offbeat enough that you'd expect people to stop and look And it's certainly not the some kind of 'last straw' sexist incident. Obviously, what happened is that Horvath was already upset from the weirdness that had transpired thus far - and based on the article, it does sound…

It could easily have been there. Stop being condescending.

A lot of "normal" interactions between men and women are fraught with creepy weirdness due to the way we're socialized. This is well studied, even if you find the conclusions of those researchers unpalatable.