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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#721

Post by Bellend »

MrDresden wrote: post #509

My partner was diagnosed with cervical cancer a couple of months ago and is now on the brink of starting radio- & chemotherapy. Due to the covid situation here in the Netherlands the treatment may not go ahead as planned, and treatment might get delayed, due to the new measures. I then know of people who's heart surgaries have been delayed 5x times due to the stress covid is putting on the health care system in anoth…

Sorry to hear that MrDresden. I hope your partner's care is successful going forward and it can be expedited as a high priority case.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#722

Post by jazzyjackson »

alex_smart wrote: post #671

Just went through this thread and I have only one thing to say: WE REDDIT NOW

It's a kind of bikeshedding

Any other thread on HN might only attract comments by people with a genuine interest and knowledge of the subject, because if I don't care about some thread about Rust I just won't comment.

Of course, everyone has an opinion on vaccine mandates, so this thread has about 50x the average responses.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#723

Post by comex »

hncurious wrote: post #709

If we were a serious society, then the conversation would be about: immune vs non-immune high risk vs low risk infectious vs non-infectious But no, it's jabbed vs unjabbed. It doesn't make sense. Everyone in Germany who wants the vaccine has had it, and if you've had Covid, you're about as protected as the vaccinated. Furthermore, leaky vaccines don't prevent transmission, can't eliminate the virus (animal reservoirs…

> Furthermore, the vaccines don't prevent transmission,

They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. The vaccines are somewhat less effective at preventing people from being infected at all than they are at preventing hospitalization and death, but still significantly effective. [1]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/11/science/vacci...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#724

Post by TrispusAttucks »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

Disclaimer: I am fully vaccinated and have had the booster shot.

From US perspective...

What I find ironic is:

President Biden, Anthony Fauci, White House Press Secretary all said they would "never mandate vaccinations" and it's "not the place of the federal government to mandate vaccinations" and that they believe "it doesn't have the authority to do so anyway"...

And since when do we not care about the minority? Also when it comes to medical decisions about my body the government shouldn't have a say in it.

On top of all that the effectiveness of the vaccine and it's longevity leave a lot to be desired. This ain't no polio silver bullet and the virus continues to mutate and break through even the most vaccinated populations.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#725

Post by jeofken »

cblconfederate wrote: post #440
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

> the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back Were people really asked to cast their vote by vaccinating themselves?

No, they were rather locked out of participating is all life outside of the home or forest unless they accept the injection

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#726

Post by lopiranti »

rafaelero wrote: post #616

It's fairly ironic how the demographics of antivaxxers (mostly right-wingers) are very keen to patriotic duties (and will probably recruit you to war when time comes), but couldn't even take a vaccine to attenuate a pandemy. That will be remembered.

Where I live the most militant anti-vaxxers are from the left (greens / environmentalists / "hippies")

This is not surprising at all considering they're generally skeptical of corporations, GMOs, big pharma, etc.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#727

Post by EricE »

Krasnol wrote: post #675
native_samples wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this claim is that vaccine fanatics spread vast amounts of misinformation themselves, and often rely on it for their core arguments. Just in this thread alone, we can find people saying: 1. Vaccines would let us wipe out COVID (wrong). 2. Even harsher lockdowns would let us wipe out COVID (wrong). 3. Vaccines stop people transmitting it (wrong). 4. Vaccinated people don't end up in ICU with COVID (wr…

I fail to see your point. On the other side we have anti-vaxxers here too. Who's more harmful? While most of those points you made here are just overblown generalisations (and probably not even stated in this fashion), none of them are completely wrong. On the anti-vaxxer side we have claims which are not only completely wrong, people literally die because they or others around them believe in them. So again: what's…

If you are vaccinated how is an unvaccinated person a threat to you?

Seriously - how?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#728

Post by generalizations »

disabled wrote: post #719
hncurious wrote: post #709

If we were a serious society, then the conversation would be about: immune vs non-immune high risk vs low risk infectious vs non-infectious But no, it's jabbed vs unjabbed. It doesn't make sense. Everyone in Germany who wants the vaccine has had it, and if you've had Covid, you're about as protected as the vaccinated. Furthermore, leaky vaccines don't prevent transmission, can't eliminate the virus (animal reservoirs…

Your logic does not work. If people in a developed country would simply become vaccinated and boosted, then only the vaccinated or not condition would typically apply in mainstream society--and not the 3 other above conditions. While all 4 are discriminatory, the first 3 are not inherently due to personal choices or preferences. People choose not to get vaccinated harming society as a whole--and make the other 3 abov…

You're still just talking about jabbed vs unjabbed.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#729

Post by jashmatthews »

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #619
fileeditview wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument always is that there are not enough beds for non-corona patients. More beds would certainly help. It is nonsense to vaccinate young and very healthy people, especially kids. Their risk from COVID is minimal to non-existent. Also the spread is not stopped by vaccinating. Vaccinated still spread the virus. If it is reduced is still unclear. There was a study in GB that showed the incidence numbers in vacci…

>...fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory. Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

Vaccinated people don’t transmit as much, nor are they as likely to contract the virus. Current estimates are 85-90% of transmission in Germany involves someone unvaccinated

https://rocs.hu-berlin.de/publication/maier-2021-germany/

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#730

Post by stormking »

jacquesm wrote: post #716
stormking wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but then the unvaccinated would only be risking their own lives. The most prominent argument for compulsory vaccination right now is that they're taking away scarce ICU beds.

It's a factor, but not the whole story. A lot of people are immunocompromised and for them just getting infected immediately raises the risks to unacceptable levels. We all owe the weaker people in our societies (from a health perspective) to take care of them, and if that requires us to get vaccinated to create a cordon of safety then so be it. That there are a bunch of egoists that would rather have us all fend for…

> We all owe the weaker people in our societies (from a health perspective) to take care of them, and if that requires us to get vaccinated to create a cordon of safety then so be it.

Too bad current vaccines don't achieve that.

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