Just went through this thread and I have only one thing to say:
WE REDDIT NOW
Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
671–680 of 1001 posts
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#672What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…
That's not really the problem though. See, no matter how many ICU beds you have, the people going to the ICU are about 40% or so likely to die from COVID and the remainder will recover but will take a very long time to do so and have a significant chance of having long term residual effects and/or complications. You don't really wish that kind of thing on anybody. So you try to avoid people going to the ICU in the fi…
You're missing the point.
The reason people are even mentioning ICU beds are because they're trying to shift the vaccination argument from "do it for yourself, if you want to" to "you have to do it for others".
If we had enough ICU beds, there would be NO argument to force people to get vaccinated, just like there is no argument to force people to not smoke or not be fat.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#673Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand this line of thinking. Voluntarily taking the shot yourself is completely different from making a "majority decision". Off course I got vaccinated, but I'm totally opposed to forcing it on people. It is absolutely crazy how easy it was for our incompetent politicians to blame people WHO ARE NOT EVEN BREAKING ANY LAWS for their own disastrous communication (just remember those "mask are actually bad…
> They constantly lied to us on every step of the way and now they're surprised that some people don't trust them? I’m sorry to say this but that is just plain populist. I do agree that pandemic management surely wasn’t optimal, but insinuating malice is simply misplaced. The situation was chaotic because a pandemic is chaotic. Lots of federal offices that are known for being low-intensity workplaces - such as public…
>but insinuating malice is simply misplaced.
Maybe initially - but at this point?
Shall we talk about Sweden?
How about this South African doctors utter shock to Omicron by many western governments? https://twitter.com/KoenSwinkels/status/1465906474270531589
Yeah, at this point anyone overdramatizing COVID is doing so for purely political and financial purposes at this point.
If Omicron is indeed as mild as it appears then this is the path to heard immunity - not the vaccine. That would cut off the non-liable money train to big pharma though; in that context the disproportional response to omicron makes a hell of a lot more sense. The real threat it presents is to the perpetual vax/booster gravy train.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#674I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…
You are equating not taking the vaccine to being anti-vax. That makes a nice slogan but that is not true. For instance it makes zero sense for people who already got covid to get vaccinated. By now that must be 20-30% of the population in most western countries. The benefits for a healthy 20-something are also spurious. This is not the population that will flood ICUs. So you can perfectly decline to take that vaccine…
> The benefits for a healthy 20-something are also spurious.
They can get it and spread it to others who are more vulnerable. Unbelievable that you and others still don't know the most basic facts about diseases, even two years into a pandemic. Please get educated and stop spreading misinformation.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#675Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was a paper recently circulating the media which shows the immense amount of "esoteric" people in German speaking countries. Those people are responsible for the staggering vaccination numbers and spreading of conspiracy myths around this crisis. It's so prevalent, I can't remember anyone who at least once spread some unscientific bullshit in the last 2 years here. The handling of those people in the media and…
The problem with this claim is that vaccine fanatics spread vast amounts of misinformation themselves, and often rely on it for their core arguments. Just in this thread alone, we can find people saying: 1. Vaccines would let us wipe out COVID (wrong). 2. Even harsher lockdowns would let us wipe out COVID (wrong). 3. Vaccines stop people transmitting it (wrong). 4. Vaccinated people don't end up in ICU with COVID (wr…
I fail to see your point.
On the other side we have anti-vaxxers here too. Who's more harmful?
While most of those points you made here are just overblown generalisations (and probably not even stated in this fashion), none of them are completely wrong. On the anti-vaxxer side we have claims which are not only completely wrong, people literally die because they or others around them believe in them. So again: what's your point?
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#676After 2 years of Covid, I find it extremely suspect that the covid vaccines are still touted so hard as the only way to manage or exit the pandemic despite it clearly not being the silver bullet it was originally promised to be. The fact that the media and government can't talk about anything other than vaccines tells me people are not really interested in solving for anything other than selling more vaccines.
It's close to a silver bullet. Yes they don't completely stop transmission but who cares about that? All we should care about are severe cases and deaths. Add the new therapeutics on top and we actually do have the silver bullet. Vaccine + Paxlovid, if widely distributed enough, ends the pandemic, barring some new, more severe variant.
My point was not so much about the vaccine itself but the fact that almost all conversation and chatter about the pandemic is centered around the vaccine and having to get it in order to get anything done (job, travel, etc). People act as if there is literally no other way for life to function like it did pre-2020 without vaccines.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#677I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#678Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this the ventilator fallacy? You know, it's march 2020, and everyone is rushing to make more of those damn ventilators? If you end up on a fucking ventilator in an ICU bed, the damage is long done . The goal is not to maximize the number of people we can have on ventilators. That is an absurd idea on the same level of the "natural immunity is better than the vaccine!" insanity we got in 2021.
No, it's not the goal. The goal is also not to split society in two and create a group that'll hate everyone forever, just because our leaders can't own up to their mistakes. The goal is to get through the pandemic best we can, and keeping societal values and principals intact should be an important part of that.
what values? half the population doesn't value science, rationality, wisdom, progress etc. I don't wanna be governed by science deniers. I also don't wanna spend years in lockdown because people are refusing to get pricked by a needle
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#679Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always . This is an absolute statement as division is literally caused by dividing between "sides". You get a divided country when the people within it divides each other into sides. Its never been the case when people have said "our side has caused the division". never. That is the irony you should be finding! If you do finally see this irony you might fin…
>> I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country.... >> How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. > Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always. That's an unhelpful muddying of the waters. If…
I think you missed the point.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#680Somehow I think these super heavy handed measures toward covid are a big mistake.
My opinion:
- Remove all restrictions, let people assess their own risk tolerance and voluntarily follow country's health guidance (or not).
- If ICUs start getting maxed out, implement bed rationing, with unvaccinated patients having lowest priority.
- Tell everyone to go on with their lives and that covid is here to stay. There's no eradicating it. Vaccines will be updated periodically just like the flu for those that want it.
Does anyone have a better endgame? I'd love to hear it. Because currently "the plan" I'm hearing from governments is "wear a mask and social distance until the end of time and get boosters every 6 months until the end of time"