Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#711

Post by k-mcgrady » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:09 AM UTC

nojito wrote: post #153

k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

Not at Apple but my company's internal data shows productivity is better as a hybrid vs pure WFH/In Office for many departments

Interesting, however I think any data gathered during the pandemic is not too useful. WFH is very abnormal currently for most. My current WFH productivity is certainly lower than when I WFH pre-pandemic.

If I was making decisions about the future of a company I would allow totally flexibility for at least 6 months post-pandemic so I could gather more accurate data. Trying to make people decide what they want (remote/office/mix) now is going to lead to decisions that people end up changing a little down the line.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#712

Post by simonh » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:11 AM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #198

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I do not care about being competitve. I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I can't…

>I am on the diversity and inclusion committee—and there has not been a single discussion of how forcing people back to the office is actively harmful to autistic employees...

Do committee members not have the ability to raise issues? I'd have thought that would be why they would want people like you on the committee, so that you can raise and talk about issues like this.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#713

Post by enriquto » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:14 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

> Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages

Maybe statistically, OK. But if you have a nice commute it may be likely the best part of your day. I have a mostly flat, 40 min bike ride in the woods every day, and it is my "me time" that I cherish and lets me unwind before and after work. Definitely not "lost time".

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#714

Post by nextlevelwizard » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #617

heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

Private transport is also one of the biggest sources of greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing daily commute seems like a good way to improve our carbon footprint. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200317-climate-change-c...

After spending all day inside my box I need a ride to clear my head anyway

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#715

Post by evandijk70 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:22 AM UTC

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I agree, I've worked remote for a little over a year now, and I definitely prefer working in on office. The main benefit for me is the hallway conversations, real-life meetings, sketching things out on whiteboard, and work/life separation. I do not see myself ever working in a fully remote environment.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#716

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:23 AM UTC

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #704

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of many, though; I'm really getting my hackles up with corporations making end users responsible for things like plastic, industrial farming and co2 emissions. Yes they're a part of the equation, but there's much bigger impact to be made if they work from the top down. Mind you, there are things like that going on (at least in my neck of the woods), with things like subsidies to consumers for going to battery pow…

> there's much bigger impact to be made if they work from the top down Exactly. Germany banning plastic straws while simultaneously funding a new natural gas pipeline feels very much like they just want it to seem like things are improving.

Public consciousness seems to lack the ability to prioritize issues.

Disposable plastics are a problem first and foremost because they cause proliferation of microplastics in the biosphere. This is an issue, but it's not an important issue right now. It's likely harmful to biosphere and to us in the long run - but as of today, there's no noticeable harm being done that can be tied to microplastics, which suggests any negative effects are weak.

Climate change, on the other hand, is a civilization-ending threat. We keep burning more fossil fuels, and it's quite likely our grandchildren will get to starve to death. Preventing this should be our absolute top priority. Microplastics can wait.

It's like trying to administer first aid to an accident victim who has a nasty skin cut on their arm, and a leg that got cut off below the knee. Yes, that skin cut is painful and it needs treating to prevent infection, but it can wait - the first priority is to deal with the leg, before the victim bleeds out.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#717

Post by bad_good_guy » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:23 AM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #162

softwaredoug wrote: post #56

What’s interesting is that this is NOT a hybrid model, as Google has done[1]. As i understand this _everyone_ is in an office Mon, Tue, Thu. This is a better situation IMO then some people always being remote and others being in person. 1 - Google lets up to 20% of employees permanently work from home: https://www.npr.org/2021/05/06/994123311/google-adapts-to-lo...

Wouldn't most people rather work 3 consecutive days? Then you have 5 consecutive days of not having to be in the office. Wouldn't that give people a ton more option to see family and friends and whatever else?

I think your weeks have 1 day extra than my weeks

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#718

Post by ir123 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

radec wrote: post #461

wikibob wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus Christ. I eat well and spend maybe $400 a month on groceries and food. I’ve heard that Google recruiters attempt to con potential employees into some ridiculous assessment of the “free” food as a compensation benefit with numbers like those that you posited above. I can’t imagine valuing daily meals that highly.

I'm glad others are shocked by that $60/day on food. I would say food takes up the largest percentage of my expenses and $60 is easily 5 days worth of food for two.

My total expenses for groceries and vegetables is less than $60 for a full month in India.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#719

Post by thiago_fm » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:28 AM UTC

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #704

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of many, though; I'm really getting my hackles up with corporations making end users responsible for things like plastic, industrial farming and co2 emissions. Yes they're a part of the equation, but there's much bigger impact to be made if they work from the top down. Mind you, there are things like that going on (at least in my neck of the woods), with things like subsidies to consumers for going to battery pow…

> there's much bigger impact to be made if they work from the top down Exactly. Germany banning plastic straws while simultaneously funding a new natural gas pipeline feels very much like they just want it to seem like things are improving.

Natural gas is great. It doesn't generate as much pollution as one might think. Other than fully clean energy like hydro and solar, it is one of the best.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#720

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

dclusin wrote: post #468

pm90 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Office politics can be amusing if you’re able to step away from it a bit and don’t care too much about the rat race. It’s immediately obvious who are the folks genuinely interested in building value and who are drones interpreting what their managers order them to do.

Eventually someone has to do the lowly business of actually implementing the value that those 10x ninja fullstack super senior software architects just created. God bless the drones.

It's a self-inflicted problem. They shouldn't have promoted those 10x ninja superstars out of development and into management roles (and apparently, "principal engineer" and even "senior engineer" is frequently just faux-management - all the responsibilities, none of the authority of a real manager).

I find it ironic that our industry trains up developers until the point they finally become competent at their jobs, and immediately force them to manage new breed of trainees instead of doing the work they're good at.