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Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

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Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#701

Post by [deleted] »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #639
tootie wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the hell does pushing back on single-family homes look like? Christian fundamentalism? Think about this from a perspective of getting positive outcomes from the actual world that exists. Divorce happens. Unplanned pregnancy happens. Family planning is being actively dismantled by the same people who are pushing for increased privatization of schooling and decreases in social safety nets. I don't think that's a c…

> What the hell does pushing back on single-family homes look like? A previous poster spelled it out: > by encouraging and aggrandizing stable two-parent families instead of getting schools and teachers to fill proxy parenting roles You seem to be thinking of "pushing back" as some sort of attack upon single parents, when I believe that the original spirit of the comment was more along the lines of: Let's strive to s…

[deleted]

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#702

Post by themitigating »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #410
themitigating wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know they are dumbing down the curriculum and how are you comparing your children's progress?

Two ways: 1) The kids State Standardized test scores were abysmal, but they were given great scores by the school. If they failed tests they were given unrelated “makeup work” to being their grade back. 2) during Covid, everything went online and we could see all the work being given. Our daughter was specifically given topics 2 grades below her actual grade to keep her grade up. Her teachers told her this, and they…

NJ is pretty highly ranked according to National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) for reading and math. They have data on grades 4 and 8 for the year 2022 [1] Grade 4 - Math #10 Reading #5 Grade 8 - Math #7 Reading #1

Wallethub.com said it's #3 overall [2]

US New and World Reports said it's #2 overall for education[3]

In 2019 EducationWeek ranked it #1 [4]

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"they didn’t assign homework “because of need for school / life balance”.

Covid was a stressful time for kids and parents alike. Is school/life balance not a valid concern for teachers especially under unique circumstances? You also mentioned everything was online, not sure if that was part of your criticism but weren't private also doing that?

"For private school, we see it because we had to help get them back up to par. I have helped my son understand algebra and read Shakespeare, and my younger daughter age appropriate math and English."

You could have helped your children in Public school as well right? Isn't it possible that you changing schools also caused you to involve yourself more. That the end result is not so much the private school but an attitude change due to the new school. Similar to how someone moves and it gives them motivation to find a job or get their life together.

You also talk about how your kids are learning the way they did years ago and that your 5th grader (at the comment's time) is learning Latin. However you mentioned that the first year of the private schooling was difficult because of the transition and the amount to overcome (related to your children being behind?)

Isn't it possible that Covid caused a distinct change in your mental state. Think about it, you have your two children home all the time unexpectedly , both with learning disabilities, and you had schools that had to adapt to remote learning quickly. There's stress everywhere. So your children don't score well on standardized tests, it's understandable to be concerned. The school, having trouble implementing a completely new way of learning drops homework and is generous with the grades. Maybe that's not unreasonable considering the situation for schools at the time.

"The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on mental health of children and adolescents is multifaceted and substantial. Survey studies regarding child and adolescent mental health amid COVID-19 indicated that anxiety, depression, loneliness, stress, and tension are the most observed symptoms." [5]

[1]https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?chor... [2] https://wallethub.com/edu/e/states-with-the-best-schools/533... [3] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education [4]https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/in-national-ranking-o...

[5]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8972920/#:~:tex....

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#703

Post by okeuro49 »

okeuro49 wrote: post #219
harimau777 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that part of the problem is that I have no idea what values you are talking about that don't match society/parents. That is to say: I'm a leftist and I'm worried about schools indoctrinating kids into a whitewashed, anti-LGBTQ+, jingoistic understanding of the world. However, I'm sure there are Republican parents that are concerned about kids being indoctrinated into a "woke" understanding of the world. I don…

I am from the UK, so view the issue impartially. The issue is, from my view, very much a problem of the Left-wing in the US, introducing victim/oppressor politics into schools, teaching children primarily to regard themselves as activists first, and students second. I can also see it is causing a mental health crisis in students, who increasingly are under pressure to identify as an oppressed minority, in order to be…

*to not to be marked out as an oppressor.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#704

Post by [deleted] »

nancyhn wrote: post #529
btilly wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry. DEI programs have this covered as well. Stop using standardized tests to get in. And then just aim for the perfect "socially desirable" mix. Regardless of ability.

Can someone explain how DEI programs got so embeded despite being flagrantly regressive?

[deleted]

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#705

Post by misja111 »

msravi wrote: post #389
wnc3141 wrote: post #46

A common phrase of the "soft bigotry of low expectations" is at work here. Those held to lower standards will fall to lower standards, deprived of the resources and support to achieve. The article attached provides a fantastic explanation. https://www.educationnext.org/teachers-should-replace-the-so...

From the article: > It does not matter if they grow up in foster care or a two-parent family. But it does! Very much. I just don't understand why the US tries everything other than fixing the most glaring cause. Lots of problems can be fixed by encouraging and aggrandizing stable two-parent families instead of getting schools and teachers to fill proxy parenting roles.

> Lots of problems can be fixed by encouraging and aggrandizing stable two-parent families

I agree 100%. But how would the US government fix this? The only political movement that I'm aware of that focusses on stable two-parent families are the conservative Christians. Or are there any others?

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#706

Post by DropInIn »

RecycledEle wrote: post #561
btilly wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry. DEI programs have this covered as well. Stop using standardized tests to get in. And then just aim for the perfect "socially desirable" mix. Regardless of ability.

The amount of equity a society enforces should be inversely proportional to age. If a kindergartener is unable to succeed, we need to give them extra help. If a 45 year old is unable to succeed, they had their chances and it's their fault.

It's thier fault if we never gave the support in K-12?

You do see the glaring failure in your "reasoning", right?

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#707

Post by DropInIn »

MostlyStable wrote: post #344
pwthornton wrote: post #299

This is the way. Teach kids more, not less. Ask more of them, not less. If you need to lengthen the school day and school year to do so, do it. Do it now. "So what should we do instead? Dallas came up with an answer: Teach kids more math instead of teaching them less. In 2019, Dallas Independent School District implemented a new equity policy that encouraged many more people to take honors math classes: Many capable…

Lengthen the school _year_ sure, but I'm skeptical that lengthening the school _day_ won't have, at best, mixed effects, especially given all the studies on sleep etc.

Even better idea:

Kids just work at thier own pace and don't graduate until they complete all work successfully.

Anything else is just a diploma mill.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#708

Post by DropInIn »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #580
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who think this is hyperbole, see [1] for a mathematician taking down the framework. California's new standards were written by folks without a background in math nor neuroscience. They misquote neuroscience papers [2] while making mathematical mistakes in their policy paper. [1] https://sites.google.com/view/publiccommentsonthecmf/?ref=st... [2] https://drive.google.com/file/d/17O123ENTxvZOjXTnOMNRDtHQAOj..…

Oh my, I read your first link in its entirety and, "Yikes." The Public comment #5 section regarding chapter 12 (which covers homework and assessments) was especially shocking. Chapter 12 in the 2005 version of the CMF was 5 pages long. The same chapter in the current draft is 70 pages long, almost entirely due to a slew of opinions against homework and other testing practices. The entire CMF draft was (and still is e…

It's almost like the reason they argue against homework isn't for logical nor evidence based reason but underlying personal biases....

Hmm... what could a group who enjoy 1/4 of the year off from their primary duties and arguably have never been outside the school system (12 to Post secondary and back to k-12, nothing between but fun) have as an underlying incentive?

It couldn't be that they just don't want to mark the work, could it? It couldn't be that they expect children to do work after an 8 hr work day, where the teachers waste most of the time either engaged pointless self aggrandizing and power games or otherwise self involved, but refuse to hold themselves to the same standards could it?

Nah, that couldn't be it... never... /s

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#709

Post by [deleted] »

cauch wrote: post #698
stale2002 wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason this report proposes to replace algebra Ok, so it is replacing stuff! Not sure why you had to go through so many posts to just admit that. And people have a problem with what is being replaced. If you wanted to say that support the replacement of algebra, you should have just said that from the beginning instead of doing this whole rigmarole. But other people very much do not want this option taken away…

> But other people very much do not want this option taken away from them and step one to talking about this is at least admitting that, yes, algebra is being replaced. Of course algebra is being replaced, where do I say anything different. I guess my mistake is assuming my interlocutors are not idiots and want to debate the reason of the replacement rather than just staying on "I like Algebra so I'm crying like a ba…

[deleted]

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#710

Post by LatteLazy »

outworlder wrote: post #178
LatteLazy wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... It's not entirely "true" Some kids are educatable. Some are not. (and this also depends on subject and other factors) That's true across all races, classes etc. I say this because I actually think the biggest issue in education is that we waste resources on kids who are not educable and hold back whole classes for the one kid who refuses. This, and 101 other issues stem from that policy. A big part of what…

> Some kids are educatable. Some are not. Citation needed. Why wouldn't they be, unless there's a disability? I have seen good teachers do wonders for 'problem' kids.

>I have seen good teachers do wonders for 'problem' kids

Exactly.

If you have a 1h lesson and 30kids you have 2minutes per kid. Assuming there are no "fixed costs" like registering them etc.

So EITHER that teacher somehow changed a kids whole mindset in 2minutes per lesson (and that's what, 10min a week if you're lucky?).

OR they neglected a big chunk of the kids that turned up already wanting to learn etc and gave those kids time to that 1 kid.

This is the fundamental problem I am talking about: "good" teachers neglect 80% of the class to go after 1 kid who does not want to be there. Turning that one F grade into a C grade is given more attention than turning 20 other Cs into Bs and As.

It makes a great Hallmark Moment, but it's terrible actual educational policy.

Then people wonder why education has so little affect on outcomes.

Let me be really clear here: I am not making a moral argument about leaving that one kid behind. Just purely a practical one: when you neglect the majority and focus most resources on the least productive cases you get very poor outcomes for the average person. And the outcome for the group is highly dependent on how many and how bad those worst cases are.

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