Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

noahpinion.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 816 posts

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#401

Post by dmitrygr »

sandworm101 wrote: post #364
dmitrygr wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a school fails its fast learners. Do you really want fewer scientists in the world?

What is measured is what gets done. If schools are judged by graduation rates, then yes, fewer scientists but more people graduating highschool. Or we go the other way and judge schools by how many elite scientists they produce. Identify the best students early. Give them everything so that they can all become neuroscientists. Abandon all those who struggle in order to focus resources on the future doctors. Imho a pu…

I can see how that would help with the feelgoods, but how will this advance science and technology? The very things that allow you (and me) to be here pontificating about this instead of sustenance farming.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#402

Post by synetic »

ddd00001 wrote: post #353
synetic wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the paper you cited: While total per pupil expenditures may be greater for the typical Black or Latinx students’ districts, there is variation in how these dollars are spent. On average, both Black and Latinx per pupil expenditures exceed White per pupil expenditures for administration, instruction, and social services. On the other hand, Black and Latinx per pupil expenditures are less than White per pupil expe…

https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2017/06/22/no-us-school-f... Being a progressive and seeing real-world data crush your entire world view time after time must be a strange feeling.

If you read the paper cited by the person I responded to above you’ll see merely comparing dollars spent is not an adequate analysis. Poorer districts have to spend more on ancillary costs - school lunches, mental health resources, social services, etc. Poorer districts have higher administrative costs, spend less on teacher salaries, and spend less on other areas related to educational success.

It’s not a strange feeling seeing data contradict my beliefs. I welcome such occurrences as they provide an opportunity to get rid of false beliefs. In the present circumstance I’ve not argued that more money needs to spent. I have suggested a better method of allocation of expenditures and that school vouchers are not the answer. Do you have evidence that I’m wrong on this? If so please show the evidence.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#403

Post by Aloha »

jasonlotito wrote: post #112
Aloha wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first part of your comment I think is key, we also dont give schools significantly more money for special ed, as we should.

Transportation is also essential. Why would we accept less going "private"? As for not giving schools significantly more money for special ed, what is significant in your eyes?

I think you can ignore the transportation part, if for no other reason than impracticality - not all districts offer effective or workable transportation now.

I'd suggest that additional funding for special education, on a per student basis could be based on some sort of disability index, whereas the more services they require gets the district more money. Ideally some formula that is a mix of numbers based on local assessments, and weighted to similar districts in size and socioeconomic backgrounds of their residents. Like if a district games the system, the weighting should result in them being brought back into some mean.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#404

Post by synetic »

ddd00001 wrote: post #341
synetic wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the paper you cited: While total per pupil expenditures may be greater for the typical Black or Latinx students’ districts, there is variation in how these dollars are spent. On average, both Black and Latinx per pupil expenditures exceed White per pupil expenditures for administration, instruction, and social services. On the other hand, Black and Latinx per pupil expenditures are less than White per pupil expe…

I don't understand how you can read that and think that the issue is spending. The answer is (and always will be) human capital. You could airdrop TJHSST kids into a literal warzone and they would do well. Smart kids are smart because they are smart. There is no magic dirt, and "muh multicausal forces" is pure cope. People like you got ahold of SF's school system and made Lowell lottery entrance. They swore that it w…

I don’t think the issue is spending. My main point is that school vouchers are bad. I did say that the method of school funding is idiotic.

Smart kids dropped into a war zone may or may not do well. They might die for one thing. They might get so traumatized by the event that they are unable to cope in life. Change someone’s circumstances drastically enough then it won’t be possible to know what the outcome is.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#405

Post by ouid »

achates wrote: post #377
pwthornton wrote: post #299

This is the way. Teach kids more, not less. Ask more of them, not less. If you need to lengthen the school day and school year to do so, do it. Do it now. "So what should we do instead? Dallas came up with an answer: Teach kids more math instead of teaching them less. In 2019, Dallas Independent School District implemented a new equity policy that encouraged many more people to take honors math classes: Many capable…

Does putting marginal students in advanced classes actually help them?

The way math is typically taught at the lowest levels actively hurts mathematical ability. Just taking them out of those classes will help them.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#406

Post by orangepurple »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #343
pwthornton wrote: post #299

This is the way. Teach kids more, not less. Ask more of them, not less. If you need to lengthen the school day and school year to do so, do it. Do it now. "So what should we do instead? Dallas came up with an answer: Teach kids more math instead of teaching them less. In 2019, Dallas Independent School District implemented a new equity policy that encouraged many more people to take honors math classes: Many capable…

> with the goal of improving opportunity for all I'm chatting with some friends who are parents in the Bay Area. Their admittedly very Californian response is that at least this should reduce competition for college spots. (Their kids are obviously going to get tutoring.)

It won't reduce competition for college spots. Admissions committees will continue to fulfill shadow racial quotas using first names, last names, and reparations sob stories as filters to maintain the status quo. Test scores of special protected classes hardly matter as long as those primary objectives are met.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#407

Post by goatlover »

tapatio wrote: post #142
wolpoli wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we going to see a transition to a pure pass/fail grading system then?

That might not be a bad idea. But it still doesn't solve the problem of some people learning/advancing quicker than others.

Why is that inherently a problem? Some people will always learn/advance quicker than others in just about any are of life for a variety of reasons. The only way to "solve" that problem generally would be some very dystopian form of social control.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#408

Post by orangepurple »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #375
throw9away6 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha that’s not actually happening though because college admissions aren’t going to be based in knowledge but on ability to jump through hoops perfectly

AI is going to upend everything about education. I can't imagine colleges doing much beyond lots of AI interviews in the near future. That's if there is even a point in getting 95% of degrees anymore anyway.

The main purpose of college besides education and networking is the development of social stratification. Many employers will toss your CV without a degree even if it is not required in any capacity for the job in question.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#409

Post by candiodari »

throw9away6 wrote: post #354
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with the goal of improving opportunity for all I'm chatting with some friends who are parents in the Bay Area. Their admittedly very Californian response is that at least this should reduce competition for college spots. (Their kids are obviously going to get tutoring.)

Ha that’s not actually happening though because college admissions aren’t going to be based in knowledge but on ability to jump through hoops perfectly

And what, exactly, do you expect administrators to do? They don't have any actual knowledge and if they do, they absolutely do NOT want to use it, so tests are out. There are now more administrators than teaching staff. We're not far off from having more "social" workers in schools than teachers.

First and foremost, these people want to decide what is equitable. Firstly, without taking actual ability (or "conscientiousness", how much effort kids are willing to put in), and secondly, they're human. They're corrupt.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#410

Post by Scubabear68 »

themitigating wrote: post #276
Scubabear68 wrote: post #258

This is why my kids are in private school now. The public school system here in NJ has been dumbing down its curriculum for years. And while I thought “social promotion” was only a thing in horrible inner city schools, we have it here out in the suburbs, too. The first six months was very rough as they caught up from being so far behind, but they are being well positioned to the rest of their school careers compared…

How do you know they are dumbing down the curriculum and how are you comparing your children's progress?

Two ways:

1) The kids State Standardized test scores were abysmal, but they were given great scores by the school. If they failed tests they were given unrelated “makeup work” to being their grade back.

2) during Covid, everything went online and we could see all the work being given. Our daughter was specifically given topics 2 grades below her actual grade to keep her grade up. Her teachers told her this, and they didn’t assign homework “because of need for school / life balance”. My son’s work was dumbed down as well.

For private school, we see it because we had to help get them back up to par. I have helped my son understand algebra and read Shakespeare, and my younger daughter age appropriate math and English.

Both are now able to take over their own studies, which are far in advance of where the grade equivalent public school is.

Our public schools also have almost no AP courses at all. The private school has only college-prep courses, and the question is only what level - basic to advanced to honors AP.

Post reply on HN