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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#701

Post by palata »

Cort3z wrote: post #503
mnd999 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

I want good PWAs. I don’t want borderline spyware-apps with access to all kinds of apis. There is no reason why a messaging app needs my gyro data, or gps, or all of the other stuff they just implicitly get because they are an app. I’m starting to think that some of the worst that ever happened was that Firefox OS failed.

How will PWAs prevent your messaging app from getting gps data?

A bad native app can require the gps permission, but a bad PWA app will be able to do the same, right?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#702

Post by voytec »

augment003 wrote: post #666
voytec wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. It's the same with privacy. Forcing app publishers to state what user data is being sucked out of their phones was just a poor PR stunt. Nothing has changed. Applications still require payments in form of contact lists (which is more or less illegal in Europe if you don't have permissio…

> It's the same with privacy. Forcing app publishers to state what user data is being sucked out of their phones was just a poor PR stunt. > Nothing has changed. Applications still require payments in form of contact lists This is actually proof that users don’t make good choices when it comes to privacy and security even when they have the necessary information.

True, but majority of users, not all of them.

On the other hand, there's little non privacy-invasive apps of certain types and corporations make good use of users' inability to pick lesser evil.

App Store helps them a lot, too, because to see what invasive practices developer/publisher uses, one has to click on app title to see details, while having a very comfortable "GET" button as the only button and only thing that looks clickable on the list.

Cook's typical smoke and mirrors approach.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#704

Post by augment003 »

voytec wrote: post #702
augment003 wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the same with privacy. Forcing app publishers to state what user data is being sucked out of their phones was just a poor PR stunt. > Nothing has changed. Applications still require payments in form of contact lists This is actually proof that users don’t make good choices when it comes to privacy and security even when they have the necessary information.

True, but majority of users, not all of them. On the other hand, there's little non privacy-invasive apps of certain types and corporations make good use of users' inability to pick lesser evil. App Store helps them a lot, too, because to see what invasive practices developer/publisher uses, one has to click on app title to see details, while having a very comfortable "GET" button as the only button and only thing th…

Not really sure what you are saying other than that users don’t want to bother understanding what they are installing.

That’s an argument for stricter store policies, not eliminating the store.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#705

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #672
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you own the hardware; you have the right to do whatever you want to it. If you want to use iPhones for target practice, have at it. You don't have the right to insist the manufacturer make it easy for you: your imagination about the uses to which the hardware could be put doesn't oblige the seller.

>You don't have the right to insist the manufacturer make it easy for you I do, and it's easy, look: I believe Apple should let me install DOOM on the bootloader and make it easy for me to do so. If I had time to waste, I'd send emails every day, go protest in front of their HQ until I get what I want. Apple's allowed to not do anything about it, and I'm allowed to lobby my legislators to force Apple to do so. Becaus…

So what you're saying is you don't have that right at the moment, but you feel you could have it if the law changed? OK, sure.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#706

Post by jonathantf2 »

vore wrote: post #255
pmontra wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I dropped my phone and broke its screen I took out the SIM and left the phone in a repair shop. I went home, put the SIM in an old phone. If the broken phone had an eSIM, would I been able to use the old one as a backup? Maybe by going to a shop and askig for a physical SIM. That would be slower and less convenient. A physical SIM fits in a Samsung A40 which is probably the smaller and lighter Android p…

If your old phone was also eSIM compatible, you can just download the eSIM from your carrier like you would if you moved to any other phone.

My carrier don't let you download an eSIM - they have to mail you a physical QR code that has a SIM number then swap them over the phone or in a store. Makes it a week long process at least.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#707

Post by tempodox »

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

Don't celebrate just yet, Apple will drag their feet and make this as painful as they possibly can for everyone involved.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#708

Post by lxgr »

palata wrote: post #579
jakub_jo wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If users don't want crappy PWAs than they wont use them. It's common sense to let "the market decide" -- why not in this case?

Counter-example: I don't want crappy ElectronJS apps, but I don't have a choice. Discord/Slack don't have an open API that would allow a good third-party client. If I don't like PWAs but WhatsApp stops supporting anything else, how can I use WhatsApp without the PWA?

There are definitely too many crappy Electron apps out there, but at least WhatsApp have been working on a native macOS/iPad OS app for more than a year now. Last time I tried the beta, it wasn't really usable yet, but at least there is hope.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#709

Post by justeleblanc »

AlexandrB wrote: post #641
justeleblanc wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you buy movie tickets, or do you rent them?

Unlike with games, you can resell movie tickets. So you buy them.

https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/19/20874384/french-court-stea...

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#710

Post by lxgr »

PlutoIsAPlanet wrote: post #405
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> And you cannot use a third party browser, since they forbid that (all are Safari based) I think this has turned out to be the current barrier in preventing Google from completing taking over the web standards space.

That may well be true, but in my view, upholding a native app monopoly for the sake of preventing a web browser one isn't a sustainable strategy (and never has been a conscious choice by anyone).
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