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Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

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Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#71

Post by gmarx »

bowlich wrote: post #63

I only skimmed the article after the first couple of paragraphs. The whole $42,000 price tag for a private college is quite a misnomer. My sister went to Michigan Tech, I went to a private liberal arts college. After four years, she has more debt then me. Your public institution is about as stingy as it can come with it's funding. That $18,000 price tag is going to end up being your final price. If you are a good stu…

My apologies in advance for being pedantic on the web but I think there is a chance a HackerNews reader would appreciate this: "Misnomer" means something is improperly named. It doesn't mean merely misleading.

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#72

Post by humanrebar »

interesting_att wrote: post #37

1) Network generation is weak, but still there. Does it justify 150k + 150k opportunity cost? The data says no. 2) Colleges are, however, great at identity generation. People who come from top tier schools feel and act like they are awesome. This dramatically helps when it comes to asking for a higher salary, better position, etc. I have met a number of people who didn't go to college, and a lot of them feel they nee…

> You have to include [FUN] in the costs.

That's part of the problem. There's no "hold the fun" option if you're price sensitive or if you want to invest your fun budget in something else.

This is a really important point because it's really an age and lifestyle discrimination. If you're in your forties and want to get a degree (or a different one), you're still funding late night movies on the quad and disc golf even if you need to be home with the kids.

That being said, I'm sure the fun line items aren't the bulk of education expenses, but other frivolous things certainly are: new rec centers, impressive fountains, micromanaging administrators, etc.

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#73

Post by humanrebar »

niklasni1 wrote: post #31

Not a fan of this way of thinking about university, as though it's some power-up in the competition to make the most money. It's all very American. What about learning and being in an environment that inspires you?

> What about learning and being in an environment that inspires you?

Why do you need to go to college for that? Especially in the internet age, there's all kinds of awesome learning resources to consume and projects to join.

Want to build a solar car? Form a club, publicize on meetup.com, and do it. Or form a business and figure out how to get paid to do it.

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#74

Post by Bahamut »

klochner wrote: post #20
loganadams_ wrote: post #10

I have a tough time with this article. I understand what it is trying to say. The costs are ridiculous. But what I see among my friends is that those who went to large public flagship schools got lost, and had a much tougher time. However, those who went to smaller private schools on scholarships built better connections with professors, and tended to do better long run.

My experience is that top students can get an equivalent if not better education at large public universities. (I went to Duke and Michigan) Public universities are much less forgiving , which means mediocre or unmotivated students get crushed in cases they would get hand-holding (and A- grades) at a private university. As for connections, they're important and you get better ones at top schools, unequivocally, but y…

This observation is mostly accurate - the less forgiving part is true, but grades can still be a bit of a crapshoot.

My own grades are highly erratic - I dominated in some of the hardest math classes where I went to undergrad (a public school), often being one of the top performers and easily the most knowledgeable, but did awful in other classes. I never cared that much about easy classes, and only applied myself on hard classes because they were mentally stimulating/challenged me. I also did not care about grades - I viewed my purpose at college to learn & develop, not be a 4.0 student.

When I went to grad school (a prestigious public school), I applied myself in all of my classes and did solid overall - all of my classes challenged me pretty hard, and so it motivated me to work hard.

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#75

Post by crpatino »

hueving wrote: post #32
pfisch wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't assess anything until college is over and you are actually in the real world. Good Grades does not mean you will succeed in real life. It mostly means you are good at following orders.

>It mostly means you are good at following orders. Maybe if you went to a terrible school. In any decent school it means you were able to come up with a solution to a problem presented to you. This is especially true for upper-level classes where the majority of the grade is based on a personal project.

As someone who has been on and off of lecturing for the last 10 years, I think you overestimate the size of the Decent Schools Set.

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#76

Post by bowlich »

gmarx wrote: post #71
bowlich wrote: post #63

I only skimmed the article after the first couple of paragraphs. The whole $42,000 price tag for a private college is quite a misnomer. My sister went to Michigan Tech, I went to a private liberal arts college. After four years, she has more debt then me. Your public institution is about as stingy as it can come with it's funding. That $18,000 price tag is going to end up being your final price. If you are a good stu…

My apologies in advance for being pedantic on the web but I think there is a chance a HackerNews reader would appreciate this: "Misnomer" means something is improperly named. It doesn't mean merely misleading.

Thanks for the correction. I will note it for my future use.

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#77

Post by crpatino »

jordanb wrote: post #16
bottled_poe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is no surprise that the students on scholarships are typically more successful in the long run. But the reason for the success is not only the college.

> It is no surprise that the students on scholarships are typically more successful in the long run. But the reason for the success is not only the college. Private colleges give out scholarships like candy. It's a form of price discrimination.

A hundred times yes! You know you have a true scholarship when it pays (not lends) at least 90% of total costs.

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#78

Post by geebee »

bowlich wrote: post #63

I only skimmed the article after the first couple of paragraphs. The whole $42,000 price tag for a private college is quite a misnomer. My sister went to Michigan Tech, I went to a private liberal arts college. After four years, she has more debt then me. Your public institution is about as stingy as it can come with it's funding. That $18,000 price tag is going to end up being your final price. If you are a good stu…

A very high percentage of UC students pay no tuition.

"In an email to NPR, a Berkeley spokeswoman said about 40 percent of undergrads there don't pay any tuition at all."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/24/366370724/cal...

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#79

Post by rayiner »

hnnewguy wrote: post #66
modoc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the person. I can't comment on Ivys, however I attended a very prestigious East coast prep school. At the time I was a terrible "networker" and I left there with zero long term friends and useful connections. A good friend of mine went to a similar prep school, but he's more a naturally social guy, and he's maintained leverage connections with probably 100 people who have gone on to positions of power a…

> So just because I wasn't personally able to capitalize on the networking opportunity doesn't mean that the opportunity wasn't there. It sounds to me that you reinforce the OPs argument: social people will make connections regardless.

You'll make connections, but to who? Consider Peter Thiel. He doesn't come from crazy money (his dad was a chemical engineer). But he went to Stanford for undergrad and law school, which allowed him to get a job on Wall Street. He funded his first hedge fund by raising $1 million from family and friends.

Very few people from middle class families who go to state schools can raise $1 million for a business venture from family and friends in their 30's, no matter how social they were in college. However, it's very doable if you go to an Ivy where half your class ends up at investment banks and hedge funds, where they're making six figure bonuses just a few years out. It's even more doable if you first do a stint in one of those jobs--you gain instant credibility as someone who can be trusted with that kind of money.

Re: Private colleges are a waste of money for white, middle class kids

#80

Post by modoc »

hnnewguy wrote: post #69
pm90 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you got there. Being social is important yes, but you can't just meet the diverse number of people that its possible to in university: future lawyers, engineers, doctors, artists, bureaucrats etc. all in the same campus. College is the best time to make connections, and an Ivy League College is even better.

> I don't see how you got there. Well, I started with the fact that he said he isn't social and made few connections, while his sociable friend made many connections. From there, it wasn't hard to conclude that "college" had little to do with generating connections. > but you can't just meet the diverse number of people that its possible to in university Completely untrue. First of all, you know where you can find di…

it's not that "college" would make a huge difference, it's that an Ivy league (or similar school) would allow a person like my friend to make connections that are helpful. The high-end prep school he went to means he has connections at global banks and financial firms, connections to families with 100s of millions of dollars of wealth, people in national level politics, international connections, etc... that wouldn't have been possible at a normal high school.
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