Earlier quoted context omitted.
Silicon Valley is still somewhat an exception to the rule about appearances. In what other area do the rich people dress exactly like the poorest? Remember the hubbub when Zuckerberg wore a hoodie to a meeting regarding the Facebook IPO. That might be laughed off in Silicon Valley but I know many people in other parts of the country that would view it as insulting for someone to show up to a business meeting wearing…
What's insulting here is that Zuck is trying to keep the "hoodie-guy" image despite his unimaginable wealth. You can't have the cake and eat it.
The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
71–80 of 214 posts
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
> then you should realize averages exist because half of the people are below it. Only true of median.
I think that the colloquial use of the term "average" actually means the median. That's how I have seen it used, anyway.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#73I was lucky enough to be poached from my job as a movie theater cleaner/attendant by the manager of a 5th Avenue Kenneth Cole. At the time I was struggling and would eventually end up temporarily homeless, and I didn't have the clothes required to work at the store. The manager insisted I at least have 1 clean, all black outfit that was brand new. I went to H&M and did exactly what the author here describes, I skipped meals to afford it. I paid my share of the rent late, but I got the outfit and I started the job.
Given the opportunity, I started to excel and as we were paid commission, my financial outlook started to improve, but I was still in serious debt and couldn't get enough hours to get over what seemed like an endlessly far away threshold of financial stability. Right before Christmas we had a regional manager come in and watch us work for a few days, as he was leaving he gave me ~$200 of "KC Cash" which was used to reward talented employees. I could use it, with my discount, to buy things we sold. I was so excited because it meant I'd be able to buy Christmas presents for my family.
Instead, my manager insisted I buy clothes and accessories for myself so I would be more presentable in the store. I went along with his demand and bought myself a couple outfits and a nice leather portfolio messenger bag, and gave my family nothing for the holidays, which they all understood.
In January, commissioned sales on moderately high end clothing drops off dramatically, as did my hours. Suddenly the threshold of stability vanished into the distance again and I needed to make a change. I wanted 40 hours, I had been without health insurance for a couple of years, and I wanted the chance to pay down my debts and move forward with my life. I started asking around and applying to office jobs for which I had no experience and no degree.
I landed an interview at a data processing company and I wore my Kenneth Cole clothes, I had a copy of my resume that a friend put together on their computer tucked into my KC Messenger bag. And when I was hired for a job I knew nothing about and had no prior experience with, it was from a pool of applicants who weren't signaling their status as strongly as I was. I remember how confident I felt, sitting in their lobby with a dozen other people around me, none dressed as well, and the few who tried not having items of the same quality.
As I've developed more marketable skills (graphic design, web dev, etc.) I've been able to signal less, but the article struck a chord with me. I remember going hungry to get the better job, skipping the christmas gifts for family to get the clothes my job required and that eventually let me get my foot in the door to a better life.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that the colloquial use of the term "average" actually means the median. That's how I have seen it used, anyway.
No, people usually have the arithmetic mean in mind.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#75Firstly, you are dismissisive to the point of bigotry if you ever refer to someone as stupid, I don't care if they are rich or poor. And while I'm all for personal responsibility and accountability...how many classes in public schools teach things like money and lifestyle management? Home Ec? Pretty sure all I learned there was how to cook and omlette. This country refuses to blame the parents yet we do nothing to as…
What does that mean? Well, that we contribute to the society that we've created... and that means spending money and buying into capitalism and this system of government we're brainwashed into calling democracy - democrazy is more like it.
The thing that keeps capitalist economies functioning is spending money, when everyone stops spending money, it all falls to pieces. The entire U.S. economy depends on perpetual debt. If they teach money management to people in school, you run the risk that people stop living this lifestyle of perpetual debt and the economy would fail.
So it's unlikely they'll ever start teaching money management or lifestyle management, or anything that flies in the face of the status quo - at least, not in state subsidized schools, because they wouldn't contribute to the continual cycle of craziness that is mandated by society.
The real world is that the rich rule the world and everyone else is groomed to fit into a society that will continue to maintain that status quo. You've got two choices, spend your life swimming upstream and fighting the status quo in the hope that eventually you'll make a significant contribution to its downfall, or fall in line and play the game, but play it better than everyone else.
If you want an easy life, you fall in line and play the game like everyone else. If your morals and ethics don't allow you to be placated and sit by and watch everyone else succumb to the machine, then you're in for a life that's sure to be full of headaches :P
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#76While I agree with the sentiment, I don't think her arguments are very strong. I personally think people make bad decisions to buy things or do things not on the premise of it being an "investment", but because most of us are very weak. We do the things we do because we are victims to advertising and peer pressure. You think they spend billions on advertising for nothing? If you read this and you are thinking, "No I…
She had about $300 in her bank account, told me she was broke, and began selling off a few extras around the house. She ran her business from home and the holidays were coming up. I continued to work as usual, and ask what she's up to. Well, she was closing up shop for 2 weeks, because hey, it's the holidays, that means no work. I thought that was a little strange, you're struggling to pay bills, and not paying your one or two employees on time, but refuse to pickup the phone to make a few sales during the break. Anyway, we decide to make dinner for the holidays, so we go shopping. She wants an elaborate dinner, so we spend $300 on groceries and alcohol for the two of us. This seems outrageous, but I figure we'll have leftovers for a week, and I'm not broke, so I'll toss in my half. Anyway, great dinner. Next night, she doesn't want leftovers, she wants to go out for dinner. Ok, I'm down. Where does she suggest? A fairly upscale restaurant, and we burn another $150 on the two of us. The rest of the holiday she continues to complain about being broke, and I continued to scratch my head.
I also met another guy, who was completely broke, with all of his credit cards maxed out. However, he always insisted on paying for everyone. We go out for coffee with a dozen people, and he jumps up, and tosses it on his card. Out for lunch, he sneaks away to pay for the group. Broke, living with his parents, full of debt, pissing away money, and fighting to get finances for his project. Last time I talked with him, he was selling off childhood items, and business equipment to pay the bills.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#77Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#78Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#79Anyone who wants to "belong" to a league of people who would waste 2500$ on a handbag IS stupid. Whether they are poor or not is immaterial. It is also a huge leap to say that being "presentable" is the same as wasting money you do not have on status symbols. They aren't the same thing.
You're assuming there's no derived benefit from belonging to that league of people, but she makes the case that there is a benefit (or benefits) to it, despite admitting it's kind of lame. It's not the strongest argument, I'll give you that, but I wouldn't know.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#80I cannot speak to the gendered or racial points (white male, here), but during my time in NYC I experienced first hand the escalation of opportunity that tracked with my escalation of signaling clothing and accessories. I was lucky enough to be poached from my job as a movie theater cleaner/attendant by the manager of a 5th Avenue Kenneth Cole. At the time I was struggling and would eventually end up temporarily home…