The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People • Hacker News Board

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#51

Post by incision » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:32 PM UTC

kirpekar wrote: post #10

I read the whole article and do not agree. Here in Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal. Yes, you have to be clean, presentable, but that's it. After that you need the skills, talent, knowledge and aptitude to perform your job. And you need that everyday, to keep your job, in this hyper-competitive environment. I was a poor starving immigrant student at one point. I did fine without even m…

>"I read the whole article and do not agree. Here is Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal."

Qualifying "do not agree" with anecdotal experience in one small area dominated by one industry is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#52

Post by stackcollision » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

sveron wrote: post #29

Beautiful analysis of privilege, class signifiers and race. Technology culture and employment in the United States is dominated by straight white males, usually with some form of class and economic privilege--people who haven't had to navigate within their society with an extreme outsider status--but there are welcome signs of a growing critical self awareness. Over the years on HN, I've seen many posts questioning t…

For a second I thought I had stumbled onto tumblr.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#53

Post by lmg643 » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

I will agree the value of a put-together appearance is valid, in many contexts. and i wouldn't take from that at all.

However ... it's ridiculous to use this to defend a $2,500 handbag purchase. the purchase was inadvisable at best.

marshall's, target, JCP etc have a massive business strategy around making sophisticated looks available on a low budget. so there are plenty of ways to accomplish the objective of self respect, presentation and budget.

there's an old essay by tom wolfe called "mau mauing the flak catchers" - watching the CEO of barney's defending himself, I think that fits just about perfectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Chic_&_Mau-Mauing_the_F...

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#54

Post by WalterSear » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

donretag wrote: post #5

headShrinker wrote: post #2

An equally good question is why to poor people vote republican? Because they want to belong. And through financial osmosis people who vote republican become rich, right? That is the thinking anyway.

Many people vote republican not because of their fiscal policies, but because of the social ones like abortion.

Abortion, Homosexual Marriage, these are manufactured controversy. They were created so that that poor masses can be convinced to vote for them.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#55

Post by thisAintNoGame » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:34 PM UTC

kirpekar wrote: post #10

I read the whole article and do not agree. Here in Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal. Yes, you have to be clean, presentable, but that's it. After that you need the skills, talent, knowledge and aptitude to perform your job. And you need that everyday, to keep your job, in this hyper-competitive environment. I was a poor starving immigrant student at one point. I did fine without even m…

I think its important to understand that Silicon Valley practices are not representative of societal trends. The examples the author uses are about going to a welfare office and interviewing for an administrative position at a cosmetology school. Just because one trend doesn't exist amongst a class of wealthy people in San Francisco doesn't mean it doesn't hold elsewhere.

So its fine to disagree with this article but I dont think that the experiences in the current tech age in Silicon Valley do anything to invalidate her experiences at welfare offices in the Mississippi delta.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#56

Post by adamzerner » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:34 PM UTC

Getting a nice outfit or two is probably a good investment. I guess it helps you deal with bureaucrats and job interviews and stuff.

But what about the rest of the "investments" poor people make? Are they all worth it?

To what EXTENT do poor people make good decisions? THAT is the real question here, and it isn't even being asked.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#57

Post by ddoolin » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

makerops wrote: post #12

Anyone who wants to "belong" to a league of people who would waste 2500$ on a handbag IS stupid. Whether they are poor or not is immaterial. It is also a huge leap to say that being "presentable" is the same as wasting money you do not have on status symbols. They aren't the same thing.

You're assuming there's no derived benefit from belonging to that league of people, but she makes the case that there is a benefit (or benefits) to it, despite admitting it's kind of lame.

It's not the strongest argument, I'll give you that, but I wouldn't know.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#58

Post by Qom » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #25

rogerbinns wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck

And the whole "it has never worked anywhere else" thing. That might factor into it.

I don't generally support socialism, but your statement is completely wrong. What about Scandinavia and Germany? What about worker's rights? The US itself has plenty of measures which were deemed socialist years ago[1] but are now so common that we take them for granted.

[1] Note that socialism designates a vast array of different ideologies and its meaning is continually evolving. It certainly did not mean the same thing in Steinbeck's time as it does today.

Edit: grammar

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#59

Post by mati » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

Qom wrote: post #34

DanWaterworth wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then you should realize averages exist because half of the people are below it. Only true of median.

I think that the colloquial use of the term "average" actually means the median. That's how I have seen it used, anyway.

In my experience very few people even know what "median" is, so they usually mean tha arithmetic average.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#60

Post by theorique » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

The article raises a good point, but it also frames the dichotomy as an either-or question.

In other words, is there no middle ground between buying an Hermès Birkin bag and dressing in rags? At least in the US, discount stores plus some fashion sense can compensate to some degree for raw dollars and a personal shopper.

Where I think the upper class pulls away from the lower class is in access to experience at a young age. Except for very rare exceptions, children are of the social class of their parents, and tend to have the experiences associated with that class.