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Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

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Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#71

Post by psionski »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #46
japhyr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pycon people are aiming to build a conference where women don't have to deal with this stuff at all. It's a lofty goal, and I appreciate them for setting a high standard. Excusing little comments creates a culture where women have to put up with innuendo throughout the conference. I saw these people removed from the room, and it was done quite appropriately. (I did not hear anything directly.)

If anyone wonders how bad things are they might want to think about the fact that creating an environment where this sort of thing doesn't happen is seen as a lofty goal.

If anyone wonders how bad things are, they might want to think that talking about sex is inappropriate in public, even though it's the most essential driver behind human behavior and, if you believe books, only one person on Earth was ever born without someone, somewhere having sex.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#72

Post by psionski »

adriarichards wrote: post #59
firloop wrote: post #5

Google Cache as website is down http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

No worries, I added CloudFlare so the folks who were DDoS'ing my site will have to find a new hobby.

I wonder how many women are DDoS'ing you... You are destroying their image as normal, fun and smart colleagues. Now everyone is gonna "watch out" when they meet a woman, "keep their mouth shut" and many other things that alienate said woman. Guess she won't be getting invites to unofficial team-buildings, either. Good job.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#73

Post by varjag »

sdfsdfsdfs wrote: post #54
varjag wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote that jokes were fired because she was in the earshot. You commented that I postulate unfounded facts, while they are very well founded if you'd go through as much as first half of her write-up.

Nope, you did postulate an unfounded fact. It isn't clear why the guy made sexual jokes. The author joined in a conversation she wasn't invited in on, and then one of the guys in that conversation made some jokes she didn't like. It's actually not clear whether the tone of the conversation between the two men changed when she joined it. For all we know that guy makes sexual jokes to his buddy all the time, there real…

For the record I'm a male. Her side of story sounds plausible because I've seen enough folks who would act like that, especially after a beer in the lunch break.

I first read the stream of autodafe comments here and my initial reaction was to post something along the lines "crusade for the sake of crusade", but fortunately I opted to read the article first.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#74

Post by japhyr »

psionski wrote: post #71
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone wonders how bad things are they might want to think about the fact that creating an environment where this sort of thing doesn't happen is seen as a lofty goal.

If anyone wonders how bad things are, they might want to think that talking about sex is inappropriate in public, even though it's the most essential driver behind human behavior and, if you believe books, only one person on Earth was ever born without someone, somewhere having sex.

This isn't "talking about sex". It's making comments with obvious innuendo that is not really funny. The net effect of this is to make many people feel unsafe and unwelcome.

I respect that many people have the ability to ignore this "noise", but we shouldn't have to.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#75

Post by psionski »

japhyr wrote: post #74
psionski wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone wonders how bad things are, they might want to think that talking about sex is inappropriate in public, even though it's the most essential driver behind human behavior and, if you believe books, only one person on Earth was ever born without someone, somewhere having sex.

This isn't "talking about sex". It's making comments with obvious innuendo that is not really funny. The net effect of this is to make many people feel unsafe and unwelcome. I respect that many people have the ability to ignore this "noise", but we shouldn't have to.

It's funny if you like that particular type of humor. I find penises funny, and I can assure you many other people do too. Maybe exactly because of the inappropriateness, I don't know. They're just now doing research of jokes and humor.

Otherwise, I fail to understand how the sexual innuendo would make her feel unsafe or unwelcome - it was a joke between friends and it wasn't even remotely targeted at her.

Even if it was, offering someone your huge dongle is probably the most welcoming thing you can do, ever. It's not noise, it's a compliment.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#76

Post by ghurlman »

adamnemecek wrote: post #8

Way to be passive aggressive about it.

Standing up, taking pictures without hiding, engaging with staff in front of the guys causing the problem, and pointing them out is passive?

What, exactly, would you have her do to escape this passivity?

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#77

Post by KuraFire »

antihero wrote: post #38

Wait so now it is 100% un-okay to make any kind of sexual joke ever if women are remotely in the proximity? I make sexual jokes with female friends all the time, and they don't care if some of them are duds, because they are reasonable people. Surely the idea of feminism is to be treated like equal human beings, and human beings should have some sense of humour. I mean, of course tits in a slideshow is horrible becau…

The problems with your comment are numerous. I'll list them off in order of sentence number:

1: Strawman; assumption of binary plus suggesting Adria's post is asking for an extreme solution ("100%"), rather than being aware of context and being sensitive to these issues. 2: False assumption that your female friends all don't care about your potentially sexist remarks. Chance is greater that if they do, they wouldn't admit it to you. Furthermore, you make a wrong accusation that because your female friends don't speak up when you make bad jokes, Adria is being unreasonable in her post. Adria is completely reasonable and accurate with what she's saying.

3. You continue making wrong accusations. There is a difference between "sense of humor" and being offensive. You can be both funny (to some) and offensive (to the same and/or other people) at the same time. If you are offensive on something, you deserve being called out on it, however funny or not you might've been in the eyes of people. You also don't seem to understand your own point. Being treated like equal human beings means treating people with respect, and making degrading, sexualized jokes at a professional event is not treating people with respect.

4: If you want to have a "private conversation," leave the conference/event venue and retreat to somewhere private. This was not a private conversation as it was in the middle of an audience at a public event, in a public space. They were surrounded by people. There was nothing "private" about this conversation. Whispering or talking softly while you're amidst hundreds of people does not make your conversation "private," it certainly does not grant you immunity against shitty behavior that doesn't have a place at the event you're at.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#79

Post by adamnemecek »

ghurlman wrote: post #76
adamnemecek wrote: post #8

Way to be passive aggressive about it.

Standing up, taking pictures without hiding, engaging with staff in front of the guys causing the problem, and pointing them out is passive ? What, exactly, would you have her do to escape this passivity?

Passive aggressive behavior does not imply passivity. What would I have done? Well assuming that I'd give a shit, I'd probably talk to the guys directly. You know, "Hey guys, this is a professional conference, let's keep it professional". Again, that's assuming that they actually said something objectionable which I'm not sure they did.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#80

Post by antihero »

KuraFire wrote: post #77
antihero wrote: post #38

Wait so now it is 100% un-okay to make any kind of sexual joke ever if women are remotely in the proximity? I make sexual jokes with female friends all the time, and they don't care if some of them are duds, because they are reasonable people. Surely the idea of feminism is to be treated like equal human beings, and human beings should have some sense of humour. I mean, of course tits in a slideshow is horrible becau…

The problems with your comment are numerous. I'll list them off in order of sentence number: 1: Strawman; assumption of binary plus suggesting Adria's post is asking for an extreme solution ("100%"), rather than being aware of context and being sensitive to these issues. 2: False assumption that your female friends all don't care about your potentially sexist remarks. Chance is greater that if they do, they wouldn't…

So tell me how dongle and forking innuendos are offensive to women, or why it is any of her business?

Women don't have domain to be offended just because a joke is unfunny.

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