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Bullying has to stop, now.

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Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#71

Post by cdmoyer »

martinced wrote: post #65

I think it's very finely done. I'm impressed by the quality of that animation and the voice is both great and touching in its tone. I'd say part of the solution is explained in the animation itself: you don't have to feel this way if you're getting bullied. Parents have a role to play. My parents always told me to not pay attention (I was the smallest kids in my class from 4 years old to 15 years old or so, so people…

> We're all past the age of getting bullied and we can >understand that nobody can make us feel inferior without >our consent. Now we have to remember to raise our kids >properly, so that they never become victims.

I don't think there is an age limit on being bullied. And while nobody can make us feel a certain way, they can certainly create an environment where it's an uphill struggle to remain positive.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#72

Post by RyanMcGreal »

Is it fair to hypothesize that a high proportion of people working in tech today were bullied and abused as children? Yet here we are today, as a community, still bullying, intimidating and harassing women who try to join our field. Something to think about as we recall the hurts that seared and traumatized us not so many years ago.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#73

Post by InclinedPlane »

martinced wrote: post #65

I think it's very finely done. I'm impressed by the quality of that animation and the voice is both great and touching in its tone. I'd say part of the solution is explained in the animation itself: you don't have to feel this way if you're getting bullied. Parents have a role to play. My parents always told me to not pay attention (I was the smallest kids in my class from 4 years old to 15 years old or so, so people…

This is bad advice.

Kids don't start out strong, they aren't magically born with all the skills they need to be an adult. And we understand this, which is why we have different norms for children than for adults. When someone has grown into adulthood they may finally have their shit together and they may have acquired enough self-confidence to be able to handle bullying. But kids are not that way. And though we should try to guide kids towards becoming more mature along the way to adulthood we should not expect and especially not require that they have the maturity of an adult just in order to live day to day.

Telling people not to become victims is often not helpful. It's good to be more self-reliant and self-assured. But that does in no way diminish the damage done by the perpetrators or their culpability for that damage.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#74

Post by yesbabyyes »

martinced wrote: post #65

I think it's very finely done. I'm impressed by the quality of that animation and the voice is both great and touching in its tone. I'd say part of the solution is explained in the animation itself: you don't have to feel this way if you're getting bullied. Parents have a role to play. My parents always told me to not pay attention (I was the smallest kids in my class from 4 years old to 15 years old or so, so people…

No. I'm sure your intentions are fine, but this is not good advice.

We cannot keep perpetuating this idea that you have to fit in. That right there is one of the most harmful memes in our Western society today.

If a kid wants to use the razor to shave, that's fine. If a kid has a problem with obesity, yes, support that kid and help that kid find a better, healthier path.

But not in order to avoid oppression. Because it's better for his or her health. For her, or his, self esteem.

A person close to me was severely bullied when she moved to a new school. She was the only person with dark skin in a school of white Northern Europeans, at a time when there were racists in parliament and a serial killer was murdering persons of color.

What do you figure she would do to fit in?

It's the bullies that has to change. The silent bystanders. Us. We must say "Wow, you have beautiful facial hair". We must embrace diversity.

Not eradicate it.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#75

Post by thejteam »

polymatter wrote: post #62
babarock wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that age-based classes is stupid. But what's the alternative? The idea of classifying 5 year old kids based on any kind of factor scares the hell out of me.

Erm, what scares you about ability-based classes? The single strongest motivator for me to do well at school was to get into the top set which was free from bullies.

The problem with ability based groupings across age groups is that doesn't take into account learning velocity, ie the speed at which people learn new things. For example, a second grader that is at a fourth grade math level is likely to learn much faster than a fifth grader at a fourth grade math level. And you don't want to put advanced 8 year olds in a class with slow 11 year olds. That in itself is an invitation to bullying.

Ability based learning within age groups makes perfect sense, but assumes a sample size large enough to make meaningful groupings at the high and low ends.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#77

Post by cathustler »

jbrooksuk wrote: post #42
ErrantX wrote: post #15

I don't think anything has touched me this deeply for years. I even got a little teary (which is rare for me). A lot of this I can relate to. School was hell for me, and I still struggle to forgive the adults around me during that period who, despite knowing what I (and others) faced, failed us utterly. Of course, school is rough and tumble - but when things went too far they sympathised, and in some rare cases talke…

> Kids will be kids, eh? Alongside the "sticks and stones rhyme" this sentence makes me tear my hair our every time I hear it. Kids who bully are thugs, not kids. My brother, he's 13, he's a kid, not a thug. He skateboards and hurts himself, plays computer games and does his homework. That is a kid. I feel or you too buddy. That whole sentence gets me really irate.

The kid with a myth of a father, and a mother who trades out her allotted food-stamps for drug money is a thug? Bullies aren't born, they're created; I have not once met a bully who had a perfect life before they decided to get angry and take it out on their peers, because, well, they don't know any better. So, yes, kids will be kids.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#78

Post by prawks »

polymatter wrote: post #62
babarock wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that age-based classes is stupid. But what's the alternative? The idea of classifying 5 year old kids based on any kind of factor scares the hell out of me.

Erm, what scares you about ability-based classes? The single strongest motivator for me to do well at school was to get into the top set which was free from bullies.

I would say both that how "ability" is measured, as well as that a 5-year-old's ability is nowhere near an indicator of their future ability.

I doubt anyone could argue against things like AP classes, etc. in high school, but 5-year-olds?

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#79

Post by jasonwocky »

Mz wrote: post #64
ErrantX wrote: post #15

I don't think anything has touched me this deeply for years. I even got a little teary (which is rare for me). A lot of this I can relate to. School was hell for me, and I still struggle to forgive the adults around me during that period who, despite knowing what I (and others) faced, failed us utterly. Of course, school is rough and tumble - but when things went too far they sympathised, and in some rare cases talke…

One thing we can do is provide more and better societal support for families/parents. My older son was usually the smallest kid in class. He tended to attract bullies. In one case, I learned a little about the situation. The bully's parents were divorcing and he was apparently going through hell at home. Bullies are most likely a product of a negative social environment themselves and coping as best they can. The oth…

That was a good blog post. I largely have the same policy with my daughters, but your post inspires me to consider applying it more strictly. Thanks.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#80

Post by throwaway_1234 »

In my previous job (my current one is far better), I experienced workplace bullying.

Though childhood bullying is more traumatic long-term, and often far more overtly abusive, workplace bullying is in many ways harder to resolve, having a fight or full confrontation would often result in sacking + not being able to get a good reference going forward.

The typical way it works is via underhand comments + actions designed to put you down but which generally look perfectly acceptable to other colleagues. This makes it easy to make out that it's your fault, you're hysterical, why are you causing trouble when there isn't any?

No amount of bringing it up caused any managers up the line to do anything about it either - it wasn't in their interest to take the flak from challenging the people involved.

The really pernicious aspect of it is how it grinds down your confidence to the point where you start actually believing there really is something very wrong with you. I spent months afterwards emotionally burnt out, even getting a new job was incredibly hard because I had begun to truly believe I was just totally shit at my job, programming, etc.

The irony was, a simple word with the people concerned from a manager would have resolved a lot of the issue. The effort required was minimal and the consequences huge.

Please, if you're a middle/upper manager, don't put your career concerns over the human beings 'below' you. And if you do, don't kid yourself about what you're doing.

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