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US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

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Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#71
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As bad as American domination is, wnat's coming after is might easily be worse.

Why? China is the alternative. How many countries has China waged war against, toppled democratic governments, established puppet março-states and invaded since 1949?

China also didn't have the ability to do most of that until very recently.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#72

For a country thats whole personallity is "winning" and that lates losers, The USA is very good a setting itself up to lose every race.

What is US losing, relative to Europe/other countries?

I can't really think of many notable things to come out of Europe as of late... besides maybe covid vaccines but its hard to really say that when 90% of the wikipedia page for the "creators" is about research and contributions that they did (and could really only do) in the US.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#73

All I can say is let us all hope this is merely the American decade of humiliation and not the beginning of the American century of humiliation.

I hope it’s like what happened to countries like England, France, and Spain. You see your empire collapse but the country itself remains intact. England “gave up” scientific and technological leadership during the 20th century. (That’s a tongue-in-cheek take on it, don’t read too much into it.)

I think that is the most likely outcome. However, if the decline starts occurring too rapidly, I do think violent far-right (and perhaps far-left) paramilitary action could become a major problem, like in 1920s/1930s Germany. Tons of time spent lurking in far-right extremist communities out of morbid curiosity, and the spread of far-right ethnosupremacist sentiment on basically every social media platform, has me concerned.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#74
I recently read "Chip War" and it talked about an era (around the 80s and 90s) were american dominance on electronics (and economy) seemed in deep decline.

Japan was the next big thing.

But the collective efforts of some government agencies, academia and the private sector helped reverse the trend.

American dominance is sure not a given but with an almost century of inertia, all hope is not lost (especially compared to the alternative).

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#75
post #52

I'm OOTL, but there _is_ a ton of waste when it comes to money we give out. The article itself even says here: > [...] the US government has cut scientific grants to academics working on diversity-related topics, halted biomedical grants to international partners, and demanded universities shut down academic units that “belittle” conservative ideas [...] I'd say it's fair to question if taxpayers should be paying for…

In the previous Trump term "diversity related topics" included things like biodiversity which is an important area of research and should be apolitical. Not because of a shift in focus, but because of top-down orders to not fund anything related to "diversity."

Conservatives in the past have also tried to belittle research grants to justify eliminating them, such as "studying X about fruit flies." It might sound silly to a lay person but drosophila is an incredibly important model organism from which many discoveries have come.

The problem is a highly political, often careless or incompetent, and sometimes blatantly corrupt administration taking a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel to so-called "waste."

[1] https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2019...

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#76
post #51
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s difficult to compete economically. If the US has welcoming immigration policies for scientists and will pay 10x what your country can afford then you’re going to end up with a brain drain. Recent changes in the US have changed that calculus but you can’t create an entire industry in the blink of an eye (and, of course, those changes can be reversed at any point)

What the US needs first and foremost is a better future for its own citizens. We have abandoned our youth to unemployment and underemployment.

Agreed with this sentiment. The average American doesn't care about any of this. Why would they? You have someone working 40+ hours a week to just barely be able to afford a dumpy apartment, with no real prospects or signs of escape - tell them that the US may no longer be paying top dollar to import the smartest people around the globe and see what they care.

In order for all of this to work cleanly, you need the everyman taken care of and actually willing to participate and have hope for the future. Until then you'll just get a slew of likely underhanded populists, because they at least pretended to care.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#77

It is pretty much clear that the current WH has decided science has a bias against them and wants to curb it. There is no reason apart from that. People still bring in bad faith arguments about private companies funding research or replication crisis. Sure these are big issues in current scientific research. There is no denying that. While there might be an intuitive sense of less public research means money saved, t…

> the current WH has decided science has a bias against them

As the saying goes, reality has a well-established (left|liberal) bias...

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#78

I recently read "Chip War" and it talked about an era (around the 80s and 90s) were american dominance on electronics (and economy) seemed in deep decline. Japan was the next big thing. But the collective efforts of some government agencies, academia and the private sector helped reverse the trend. American dominance is sure not a given but with an almost century of inertia, all hope is not lost (especially compared…

> But the collective efforts of some government agencies, academia and the private sector helped reverse the trend.

Well that's the key. The current administration is doing its best to sabotage science.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#80
post #52

I'm OOTL, but there _is_ a ton of waste when it comes to money we give out. The article itself even says here: > [...] the US government has cut scientific grants to academics working on diversity-related topics, halted biomedical grants to international partners, and demanded universities shut down academic units that “belittle” conservative ideas [...] I'd say it's fair to question if taxpayers should be paying for…

New account because I’m a lazy lurker, but “diversity related” projects could be as simple as trying to balance the number of studies done primarily on white males vs other groups. Especially in biomedical research, the gender of the population studied has a profound effect on the relevancy of results.

By many measures, over 75% of studies have historically focused on white male populations, which for a variety of potential research/treatment areas, is important to control for.

https://www.google.com/search?q=percentage+of+medical+studie...

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