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NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

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Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#71

Post by rdtsc »

swordswinger12 wrote: post #52
rdtsc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was joke among mathematicians at US universities for a while about how if you want to work for the NSA, pick up the phone, call your mother and ask to be employed at the NSA.

My old research advisor told me a story about a conversation he had with an NSA rep who seemed to know an eerie amount about his work. When he pointed this out to her, she insisted they had spoken previously. He's pretty positive they never did.

It was more of a one-sided conversation I guess ;-)

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#72

Post by mcantelon »

briandear wrote: post #42
nraynaud wrote: post #25

And if you think it's ok to use national security means to spy on foreign companies to rig the economic competition and if you think a human being from another country has less rights to privacy than one with a US passport, apply.

Right. Because China and France would never do that. One of the primary purposes of French Intelligence is industrial espionage. Before you make ignorant statements about the NSA how about getting some facts? Also, if those 'human beings' are trying to blow up Americans, then I don't care about their rights. I have a right for my kid to not get killed while traveling on the subway. I have a right to not have bombs bl…

>The fact that you can even safely criticize the NSA and feel secure that you won't be arrested is a testament to the freedoms the NSA helps preserve

The NSA going against the Constitution and conducting mass domestic surveillance is a funny way of "preserving freedom".

By offering uncritical support of institutions that undermine freedom you are working against freedom and helping the US continue to move in the direction of China.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#73

Post by mcantelon »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #5
spiffistan wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. That has to be a first from a US government agency.

I think its great though that the NSA is acknowledging the resource that DEFCON is though.

Kind of a no-brainer, when you're trying to circumvent your population's security and break its encryption, to attempt to buy off people with related skills.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#74

Post by ArbitraryLimits »

zheng wrote: post #58
ArbitraryLimits wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the government is just the last place left where you can count on a stable paycheck, and lots of engineers like to optimize for that instead of for the possibility of striking it rich. It used to be, anyway.

What about Google, Microsoft, IBM, etc?

You mean the IBM that almost disintegrated in the 90s, and that now employs an entirely different workforce than it did then because their core business has completely changed? And IMO Microsoft is being driving into the ground, it certainly won't be known as a stable employer within 20 years. We'll see what happens with Google, I guess.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#75

Post by adavies42 »

Spearchucker wrote: post #24
Zenst wrote: post #2

Have to appreciete the direct honest approach: "It's true that you must be a U.S. citizen, and you'll need a security clearance that requires a background investigation and polygraph. But ... If you have a few, shall we say, indiscretions in your past, don't be alarmed. You shouldn't automatically assume you won't be hired. If you're really interested, you owe it to yourself to give it a shot."

Having some experience of this I know that background is crucial, as is current circumstance. Both need to show beyond doubt that you're trustworthy. What that means is that if you've been convicted of something you should point that out. If it's serious, like assault, you're out. If it's not serious, like exceeding the speed limit, and you didn't mention it, you're out. Current circumstances are about trying to unco…

> If it's serious, like assault, you're out.

i've seen some examples that suggest it might not be as cut-and-dry as that. i don't have the url handy, but some time ago someone in one of this discussions linked to a publicly-accessible record of clearance decisions. the one that jumped out at me had a guy who'd been a drug addict and involved in dealing in the past--he was clean now and fully informed them about it during the screening, and was approved.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#76

Post by jedberg »

illumin8 wrote: post #40

I was offered a nice contracting job at a USAF base. All I had to do was run a single large Oracle server (Sun Enterprise 10000). I asked "what does the system do?" The recruiter told me the database handled the parts ordering system for foreign countries that need to order replacement parts for F-15 fighters that the US ships to them. I turned down the position for ethical reasons. Somehow, I'm not comfortable knowi…

What about all the lives your work might save? What if you figure out how to crack the encryption of a network of evil doers so that the next bombing of civilians is prevented?

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#77

Post by mentat »

epoxyhockey wrote: post #57
Zenst wrote: post #2

Have to appreciete the direct honest approach: "It's true that you must be a U.S. citizen, and you'll need a security clearance that requires a background investigation and polygraph. But ... If you have a few, shall we say, indiscretions in your past, don't be alarmed. You shouldn't automatically assume you won't be hired. If you're really interested, you owe it to yourself to give it a shot."

Have to appreciete the direct honest approach You know, they are only referring to smoking pot once or twice, right? Admit to running a small botnet or monitoring GSM calls and I'm sure your 2nd interview will be with the FBI .. not for a job. This whole NSA/DEFCON relationship smells funny. I've lost a lot of respect for DEFCON.

Many of the leaders of DEFCON work for the government. I've come to suspect that it's 'pwned' and is now revealing its form as a recruiting tool.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#78

Post by nohat »

briandear wrote: post #19
stfu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and polygraph Are they still serious about doing the polygraph dance? Even after all these years with questionable results and even the Supreme Court rejecting it as neutral evidence. I guess they are starting pretty early in making employees believe into made-up Security Theater mechanisms.

The polygraph isn't about lie detection. If you can't beat an NSA poly, they wouldn't want you. The poly isn't about finding 'truth' inasmuch as it's about your abilities to pass it. I can't speak to the NSA specifically, but in other agencies, the poly is a screening tool. Even if you're lying but can beat the poly, then you have proven that you can maintain while under extreme pressure. Intel agency polys are serio…

I seriously doubt that the nsa is worried about hiring mathematicians with psychological control under mental duress. That's more like cia agent training.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#79

Post by devb »

jedberg wrote: post #76
illumin8 wrote: post #40

I was offered a nice contracting job at a USAF base. All I had to do was run a single large Oracle server (Sun Enterprise 10000). I asked "what does the system do?" The recruiter told me the database handled the parts ordering system for foreign countries that need to order replacement parts for F-15 fighters that the US ships to them. I turned down the position for ethical reasons. Somehow, I'm not comfortable knowi…

What about all the lives your work might save ? What if you figure out how to crack the encryption of a network of evil doers so that the next bombing of civilians is prevented?

Have the foreign operations of the US government in the last ten years saved or ended a larger number of lives?

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#80

Post by epoxyhockey »

mentat wrote: post #77
epoxyhockey wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to appreciete the direct honest approach You know, they are only referring to smoking pot once or twice, right? Admit to running a small botnet or monitoring GSM calls and I'm sure your 2nd interview will be with the FBI .. not for a job. This whole NSA/DEFCON relationship smells funny. I've lost a lot of respect for DEFCON.

Many of the leaders of DEFCON work for the government. I've come to suspect that it's 'pwned' and is now revealing its form as a recruiting tool.

Many of the leaders of DEFCON work for the government

I can confirm this. Though, to be realistic, I haven't encountered any conference or local 2600-type meeting that hadn't been pwned by government representatives. What I haven't seen is the active promotion of the very agencies that are working hard to put meeting attendees in jail.

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