Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

nsa.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 89 posts

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#51

Post by TruthElixirX »

rdtsc wrote: post #39
briandear wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The polygraph isn't about lie detection. If you can't beat an NSA poly, they wouldn't want you. The poly isn't about finding 'truth' inasmuch as it's about your abilities to pass it. I can't speak to the NSA specifically, but in other agencies, the poly is a screening tool. Even if you're lying but can beat the poly, then you have proven that you can maintain while under extreme pressure. Intel agency polys are serio…

The polygraph to me is about the ability to lie without being detected. Psychopaths pass them with flying colors. You tout that as a "good thing" -- you've proven you can tell lies, come join our team. What kind of people do you end up with in the end then? -- yes people who are tough, but also psychopaths, people who can lie well and can then easily turn on you and sell that $150M spying project to someone else for…

Polygraphs are passable by non-psychopaths. Its a broken test that is useless and not scientifically verified.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#52

Post by swordswinger12 »

rdtsc wrote: post #36
raverbashing wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No need to send us your CV, we already have it"

There was joke among mathematicians at US universities for a while about how if you want to work for the NSA, pick up the phone, call your mother and ask to be employed at the NSA.

My old research advisor told me a story about a conversation he had with an NSA rep who seemed to know an eerie amount about his work. When he pointed this out to her, she insisted they had spoken previously. He's pretty positive they never did.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#53

Post by thinkingisfun »

briandear wrote: post #42
nraynaud wrote: post #25

And if you think it's ok to use national security means to spy on foreign companies to rig the economic competition and if you think a human being from another country has less rights to privacy than one with a US passport, apply.

Right. Because China and France would never do that. One of the primary purposes of French Intelligence is industrial espionage. Before you make ignorant statements about the NSA how about getting some facts? Also, if those 'human beings' are trying to blow up Americans, then I don't care about their rights. I have a right for my kid to not get killed while traveling on the subway. I have a right to not have bombs bl…

"Where's your outrage over Syrian and Iranian Intelligence and their tactics?"

Even though this isn't addressed at me, my response would be: Where it belongs, in conversations with Syrian and Iranian intelligence officials.

For all we know, they excuse what they do with what the US is doing. There was the cold war, then that ended, and without missing a beat military budgets kept growing. Now there's Al Quaeda (former resistance fighters against the Soviet Union, whee), and China. There's always something. It's propaganda 101, and they do the same. The game isn't "nation X against nation Y", it's elites in all nations against their populations.

"I'm not defending all of the actions of those agencies, but I will certainly defend their mission and goals."

But we ARE talking about their actual actions, instead of their espoused goals, so how is that relevant? We get it, it's not nice for drones to see free people... then just look elsewhere, because we aren't going away.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#54

Post by pdubs »

briandear wrote: post #19
stfu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and polygraph Are they still serious about doing the polygraph dance? Even after all these years with questionable results and even the Supreme Court rejecting it as neutral evidence. I guess they are starting pretty early in making employees believe into made-up Security Theater mechanisms.

The polygraph isn't about lie detection. If you can't beat an NSA poly, they wouldn't want you. The poly isn't about finding 'truth' inasmuch as it's about your abilities to pass it. I can't speak to the NSA specifically, but in other agencies, the poly is a screening tool. Even if you're lying but can beat the poly, then you have proven that you can maintain while under extreme pressure. Intel agency polys are serio…

I suppose someone with a bullshit threshold high enough to take a polygraph would do better in a government agency than someone who wouldn't.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#55

Post by hammock »

Zenst wrote: post #2

Have to appreciete the direct honest approach: "It's true that you must be a U.S. citizen, and you'll need a security clearance that requires a background investigation and polygraph. But ... If you have a few, shall we say, indiscretions in your past, don't be alarmed. You shouldn't automatically assume you won't be hired. If you're really interested, you owe it to yourself to give it a shot."

Some people are saying the polygraph is to prove you are trustworthy, others are saying it's to test your ability to lie. These two notions appear to contradict each other, though.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#56

Post by lincolnq »

illumin8 wrote: post #40

I was offered a nice contracting job at a USAF base. All I had to do was run a single large Oracle server (Sun Enterprise 10000). I asked "what does the system do?" The recruiter told me the database handled the parts ordering system for foreign countries that need to order replacement parts for F-15 fighters that the US ships to them. I turned down the position for ethical reasons. Somehow, I'm not comfortable knowi…

I don't understand the moral intuition here: why is working on that Oracle server morally wrong, but not paying taxes to the country which bombs those innocent civilians?

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#57

Post by epoxyhockey »

Zenst wrote: post #2

Have to appreciete the direct honest approach: "It's true that you must be a U.S. citizen, and you'll need a security clearance that requires a background investigation and polygraph. But ... If you have a few, shall we say, indiscretions in your past, don't be alarmed. You shouldn't automatically assume you won't be hired. If you're really interested, you owe it to yourself to give it a shot."

Have to appreciete the direct honest approach

You know, they are only referring to smoking pot once or twice, right? Admit to running a small botnet or monitoring GSM calls and I'm sure your 2nd interview will be with the FBI .. not for a job.

This whole NSA/DEFCON relationship smells funny. I've lost a lot of respect for DEFCON.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#58

Post by zheng »

ArbitraryLimits wrote: post #33
timsally wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of this really interesting things I've discovered over the last year is that the government is really heterogeneous; extraordinary competence exists in many places. When you think about it, it makes perfect sense. There are talented hackers working on the kernel instead of Wall Street for ideological reasons. It not that great of a leap to imagine that there are also talented hackers (and people who are talented…

Or the government is just the last place left where you can count on a stable paycheck, and lots of engineers like to optimize for that instead of for the possibility of striking it rich. It used to be, anyway.

What about Google, Microsoft, IBM, etc?

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#59

Post by drivingmenuts »

lincolnq wrote: post #56
illumin8 wrote: post #40

I was offered a nice contracting job at a USAF base. All I had to do was run a single large Oracle server (Sun Enterprise 10000). I asked "what does the system do?" The recruiter told me the database handled the parts ordering system for foreign countries that need to order replacement parts for F-15 fighters that the US ships to them. I turned down the position for ethical reasons. Somehow, I'm not comfortable knowi…

I don't understand the moral intuition here: why is working on that Oracle server morally wrong, but not paying taxes to the country which bombs those innocent civilians?

It's a realistic choice.

One can usually choose not to work in a military-related occupation and probably not face any major repercussions. However, if one chooses not to pay taxes, one may soon find oneself without the ability to earn an income of any sort, for starters.

Everyone has limits to what they feel they can do in protest.

Re: NSA Careers for DEF CON Attendees

#60

Post by cbryan »

lincolnq wrote: post #56
illumin8 wrote: post #40

I was offered a nice contracting job at a USAF base. All I had to do was run a single large Oracle server (Sun Enterprise 10000). I asked "what does the system do?" The recruiter told me the database handled the parts ordering system for foreign countries that need to order replacement parts for F-15 fighters that the US ships to them. I turned down the position for ethical reasons. Somehow, I'm not comfortable knowi…

I don't understand the moral intuition here: why is working on that Oracle server morally wrong, but not paying taxes to the country which bombs those innocent civilians?

I've been in a similar situation, and I think it's about risk. It's relatively easy to decline a job, you're not going to jail for turning down a gig. Not paying taxes will get you some serious jail time though. So morally, yeah, both actions are enabling the same results, but one is easier to commit to.
Post reply on HN