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Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

kalzumeus.com

71–80 of 176 posts

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#71

> Engineers in particular are usually very highly paid Cost Centers, which sets MBA’s optimization antennae to twitching disagree completely with this. I view scientists, engineers, programmers, and system administrators as a part of the profit center because they are intrinsically tied to value creation and value amplification.

The whole idea of a “cost centre” is nonsense anyway.

A useful word for describing the optimization of something that adds shareholder value is appreciated by those who consider it.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#72
post #4

>You are not defined by your chosen software stack: I recently asked via Twitter what young engineers wanted to know about careers. Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go. I generally agree with this point and many others in the article but when looking for a position the tech stack of a company you're interviewing with matters a whole lot. Using some older…

> Using some older/unfashionable languages or maintenance-only frameworks indicates a lack of investment or interest in technology. It probably also indicates a lot as far as what your colleagues would be like and how much you'd learn from them.

Similarly, using a bleeding edge stack indicates the engineers are getting away with resume stacking and you can be pretty sure the product will be late, over budget and developers leave after a year because it turns out using any particular tech stack in and of itself doesn't mean you can create something useful.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#73

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

Since we’re generally sitting on top of a giant pile of semi-understood abstraction that doesn’t have a real mathematical model and is often defined by matching legacy behavior (aka precedent), “Software Lawyer” could be a better name.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#74

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

I'm not an engineer or a lawyer. ;-)

Nobody's skirting the law. In most US states, there is a so called "industrial exemption," which allows you to do engineering without a license if you work for certain kinds of employers. I work for such a company, though I don't have an engineering title. But when we do offer a product for sale to the public, it goes to a third party for approval, and the people at that company who conduct the design review all have engineering licenses. The thing that will get you in trouble is offering engineering services directly to the public.

Now in my state, there are only licenses for a small handful of engineering disciplines: Electrical, mechanical, power, etc. I don't know if it means that the rest of us can't call ourselves engineers at all, or if we're just unregulated. I've never tested those waters.

From what I've observed, people with engineering job titles rarely do any hard quantitative engineering. Most of the work consists of organizing and arranging things, fitting things together, troubleshooting, etc.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#75
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people would find that really weird. Potentially "bad culture fit" weird.

Interviews are two way; if it really annoys somebody to be called an engineer when they aren’t licensed or doing what they think of as engineering work, then… I guess it is a legitimate bad culture fit, right? If that’s the hill somebody wants to die on, might as well get it out of the way! IMO — I’d prefer not to be called engineer but we live in a capitalist world — if someone is willing to pay enough they can call…

People are free to attempt to break from society and never use money because of some crazy SovCit conspiracy too. But this was proposed as advice and presented as kind of some correct thing to do so it is quite available for criticism. It is a very strange, mercurial position that no one should really follow if they want to achieve goals discussed in the OP article, such as being financially successful in one’s career.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#76
post #49

This whole article is great advice for playing the career game, or “how to fit in and not get bullied at school”. Note that it comes at a cost, and that cost may or may not be worth it to you. Note also that playing a game for a long time you forget that you are playing a game, and you start incorporating the rules of the game into your mind. Some people are more resistant to this effect than others, and some people…

Great post overall, and great advice on picking your game.

What I would add is: sometimes the thing which you want to do can't be done without some engagement in a game you don't like. It doesn't mean you have to give in and lose yourself entirely to the game, but you need at least pay enough attention to understand what's going on. The world is full of gatekeepers, often where you least expect it. Trying to avoid that reality can sometimes lead you to a worse place than just sucking it up and putting on a smile to get where you want to be.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would simply not use the title anywhere. If I got an interview or offer, I would point out the problem with the job title at that time.

This is absolute madness. Just accept the game for what it is. If they wanna call software developers "software engineers", what do you have to gain by swimming uphill?

The irony is that it also applies to electrical and mechanical engineers that very often do not hold or intend to obtain a P.E.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#78

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

Since we’re generally sitting on top of a giant pile of semi-understood abstraction that doesn’t have a real mathematical model and is often defined by matching legacy behavior (aka precedent), “Software Lawyer” could be a better name.

Naw, we should be honest about what we actually do, mostly so we can stop pretending our industry is good at what we do.

We are "Framework and API plumbers" by and large, taking existing packages and just hooking them into each other.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#79

> Engineers in particular are usually very highly paid Cost Centers, which sets MBA’s optimization antennae to twitching disagree completely with this. I view scientists, engineers, programmers, and system administrators as a part of the profit center because they are intrinsically tied to value creation and value amplification.

It depends if it is a software company or not.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#80
so when will we declare this advice outdated? Or extremely limited.

The first thing that is outdated, the advice is basically don't be a programmer be an expert in something the company needs. The thing is in the modern world the company often needs programmers more than it needs the other expertise, hence the big salaries we earn getting hired to solve problems.

>There are companies which create software which actually gets used by customers, which describes almost everything that you probably think of when you think of software. It is unlikely that you will work at one unless you work towards making this happen.

I mean, I've never done anything to try to be writing customer facing software but, aside from some international standardization work, that is all I have ever really worked on.

I think between 2011 and now that stuff changed, and maybe it was already very well on the way to changing in 2011 but the person who wrote this wasn't aware it was changing.

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