Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

politico.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 84 posts

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#71

Post by dragonwriter »

helloharvey wrote: post #66
dragonwriter wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But HN requires burner accounts all the same. No, it really doesn’t. They are a poor substitute for self-awareness.

It does. It would be nice if controversial statements, said in good faith, were not downvoted and flagged, but thats not a reality on HN. Much easier to make burners, say what’s on one’s mind, and move on.

> It does.

Having never used a burner, been on here a little over a decade, been on the unpopular side of many arguments here, having never had a ban, and being #17 on the leaderboard, I’m pretty confident that HN does not, in fact, require burners.

> Much easier to make burners, say what’s on one’s mind, and move on.

Yes, its a lot easier to use burners than think about how you are engaging and presenting your views.

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#72

Post by bogomipz »

twinbedlam wrote: post #65
yummypaint wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly freedom of expression. The first amendment protects against government action, which it did in both cases. What it does not and cannot do is force other people to continue doing business with someone, as that would violate their own rights to free expression. It's shocking how common this misconception is recently. To maintain our democracy citizens need to understand and care about civics. If we reac…

I don't think it's so shocking as it is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. > What it does not and cannot do is force other people to continue doing business with someone, as that would violate their own rights to free expression. If I fire someone after they change their religion to one I disagree with, would I be free from legal consequence?

Yes, as you would be guilty of religious discrimination. Colin Kaepernick was not fired. He opted out of his contract in 2017 and became a free agent.[1]

[1] https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2695566-colin-kaepernick...

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#73

Post by helloharvey »

skyyler wrote: post #70
helloharvey wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. It would be nice if controversial statements, said in good faith, were not downvoted and flagged, but thats not a reality on HN. Much easier to make burners, say what’s on one’s mind, and move on.

So you're not afraid of making controversial statements, but you're afraid to have them attached to your handle? It sounds like you're a coward, honestly.

Oh no!

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#74

Post by helloharvey »

dragonwriter wrote: post #71
helloharvey wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. It would be nice if controversial statements, said in good faith, were not downvoted and flagged, but thats not a reality on HN. Much easier to make burners, say what’s on one’s mind, and move on.

> It does. Having never used a burner, been on here a little over a decade, been on the unpopular side of many arguments here, having never had a ban, and being #17 on the leaderboard, I’m pretty confident that HN does not, in fact, require burners. > Much easier to make burners, say what’s on one’s mind, and move on. Yes, its a lot easier to use burners than think about how you are engaging and presenting your views…

Most of us at the end of the day don’t care, certainly not enough to keep track of a leaderboard of this site LMAO.

As I said, use a burner, post and move on. Let the haters do their thing.

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#75

Post by nautilius »

bogomipz wrote: post #68
nautilius wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/06/1121322520/a-black-protester-...

I really don't understand what your URL is meant to convey and you don't provide any detail yourself. Per the ACLU: >"WHAT DOES FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION ACTUALLY MEAN?" >"The First Amendment guarantees our right to free expression and free association, which means that the government does not have the right to forbid us from saying what we like and writing what we like; we can form clubs and organizations, and take part…

> Do you believe had if she been in the middle of the crowd or in an empty parking lot exclaiming the same with a megaphone she would have been arrested?

No, that's my whole point. She said something that the authorities did not like. She did not do anything whatsoever. And she was jailed for it. She was punished by the government for saying something she liked to say.

You consider a single unarmed woman speaking a 'true threat' to a phalanx of armed police men? I guess there's not much right to free expression left then. The cops on the photo sure do look frightened. I guess she can be happy that she wasn't simply shot on the spot.

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#76

Post by nautilius »

bogomipz wrote: post #68
nautilius wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/06/1121322520/a-black-protester-...

I really don't understand what your URL is meant to convey and you don't provide any detail yourself. Per the ACLU: >"WHAT DOES FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION ACTUALLY MEAN?" >"The First Amendment guarantees our right to free expression and free association, which means that the government does not have the right to forbid us from saying what we like and writing what we like; we can form clubs and organizations, and take part…

Here's another good one where some guy gets "arrested, jailed, and prosecuted because he made fun of his local police department on Facebook".

https://ij.org/press-release/new-supreme-court-appeal-asks-c...

Unless in your world jokes on facebook are also "true threats".

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#77

Post by bogomipz »

nautilius wrote: post #75
bogomipz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand what your URL is meant to convey and you don't provide any detail yourself. Per the ACLU: >"WHAT DOES FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION ACTUALLY MEAN?" >"The First Amendment guarantees our right to free expression and free association, which means that the government does not have the right to forbid us from saying what we like and writing what we like; we can form clubs and organizations, and take part…

> Do you believe had if she been in the middle of the crowd or in an empty parking lot exclaiming the same with a megaphone she would have been arrested? No, that's my whole point. She said something that the authorities did not like. She did not do anything whatsoever. And she was jailed for it. She was punished by the government for saying something she liked to say. You consider a single unarmed woman speaking a '…

If any stranger, man or woman, got in my face and told me "You better be ready to die", then yes I would find that threatening. I think most people would feel threatened by such behavior. I think you would as well. This is generally considered aggressive behavior.You are no longer expressing an opinion when you tell someone they "better be ready to die." Further, you would also have no idea if that person was armed or not. Lastly the idea that the police officer was part of a phalanx appears to be a detail you made up and it's irrelevant anyway, as a particular formation means nothing if you are outnumbered.

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#78

Post by bogomipz »

nautilius wrote: post #76
bogomipz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand what your URL is meant to convey and you don't provide any detail yourself. Per the ACLU: >"WHAT DOES FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION ACTUALLY MEAN?" >"The First Amendment guarantees our right to free expression and free association, which means that the government does not have the right to forbid us from saying what we like and writing what we like; we can form clubs and organizations, and take part…

Here's another good one where some guy gets "arrested, jailed, and prosecuted because he made fun of his local police department on Facebook". https://ij.org/press-release/new-supreme-court-appeal-asks-c... Unless in your world jokes on facebook are also "true threats".

Yes of course you can always find an outlier to support your case but this is not the general case in the US. And certainly not at all comparable to what your options for self-expression would be in any of the United Arab Emirates which is actually the context of this whole discussion. The idea that they might be in any way comparable is absurd.

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#79

Post by rsj_hn »

tannedNerd wrote: post #5

What other last min rule changes will FIFA bravely make to keep the last few payouts of those bribes going. Between Fox and AmBev they are already going to making significantly less money at 2026 because of concessions over Qatars World cup. https://adage.com/article/media/fifa-admist/309601 Must have been quite a lot to be worth it, and can’t wait to read about the sweetheart deal they give ambev to avoid lawsuits.

I'm not sure which of these is worse:

* (Awareness) Europeans who didn't realize that Qatar is a muslim country that doesn't allow LGBT advertising

* (Asymmetry) Europeans who knew about Qatar's values, but didn't think Qatar would enforce them with the same vigor as Europeans enforce their values

* (Naïveté) Europeans thinking that the reason they could impose their values on these types of international events in the past was something other than money

What is happening is that as the West declines in relative economic dominance, other societies become more important on the international stage, and their moral codes must be accommodated. Europeans are finding out that the shoe is now on the other foot in terms of who must accommodate whom, and they are shocked by the discomfort.

Re: European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup

#80

Post by benj111 »

djbebs wrote: post #25
benj111 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What European countries count as most?

Pretty much all of them.

I like how you make sweeping generalisations, with out getting specific enough to actually be required to defend yourself.

Does the UK have freedom of expression? if not why not, if so what about Germany, or France, or Belgium, or Luxembourg, or the Netherlands, or Sweden, or finland, or Norway, or Denmark?

I'll be nice and give you belarus, Hungary, I'll even give you transnistria.

Post reply on HN