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On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

residentcontrarian.com

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Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#71
post #61

The hell of it is, he still isn't middle class. The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore. He is just no longer at the very bottom of the underclass. He is now mid-lower lower class. It is impossibly hard for most people not in the upper class in the US to conceive of just how impossibly far they are from that upper class. $100k/yr? Lower class. $200k/yr? Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your k…

> The US income curve is now strongly bi-modal. One hump for upper class, another for lower. Very few people are near the middle, where the middle class once was. Evidence? Because I don't think the US income distribution looks like this at all. [Edit: Oh, you've got your own definition of "middle", which is completely different from what everyone else in this conversation is using. With your definition of "middle",…

this is the distribution. https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distri...

OP is just making stuff up arbitrarily

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#72
post #69
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand very, very well. The average American lives in a hellscape, one serious illness removed from homelessness. If you can imagine losing your home to illness, you are lower class like the rest of us. Upper class is what they call the 1%. Most of us are among the other 99%.

This may be more of an indictment on medical costs in the US than on income distribition.

See how good they have got at redirecting our attention? We even do it for them.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#73
post #61

The hell of it is, he still isn't middle class. The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore. He is just no longer at the very bottom of the underclass. He is now mid-lower lower class. It is impossibly hard for most people not in the upper class in the US to conceive of just how impossibly far they are from that upper class. $100k/yr? Lower class. $200k/yr? Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your k…

> Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your kids through college, and still make your house and car payments, replacing your car every year or two. Yes, that was what middle-class people used to do.

This is a complete delusion designed to justify affluent people asserting they’re “middle class.” Americans never lived like that. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, most people didn’t even go to college. They lived in a house with half the square footage, but more people in the household. If they got cancer, they just died.

The problem isn’t republicans, or not just republicans. The problem is that Democrats also refuse to raise taxes on the top 25% above the current Reagan-era lows. Every other developed economy functions by heavily taxing the top 25%. Even in the US, that group earns the plurality of income. What makes the American tax structure unusual isn’t the absence of wealth taxes or low capital gains or corporate tax rates. It’s incredibly low tax rates on upper middle class people. What makes America unusual is that affluent professionals identify as beleaguered members of the “bottom 99%” instead of acknowledging that they are the people that must be taxed to pay for the social services they claim to want.

You know why many Americans are on the edge of medical bankruptcy? It’s not because we don’t have wealth taxes on billionaires. Sweden doesn’t have that either. Neither does Germany or France or Spain or Italy. The reason is because of the incredibly low taxes paid by Facebook engineers, doctors, lawyers, and other white collar professionals. My au pair paid about the same tax rate in Germany, with an entry level desk job (40%) as my double private practice lawyer household in Maryland. That’s because the second to highest tax rate (42% versus the top 45%) kicks in at the equivalent of $70,000/year. In Sweden, the top tax rate kicks in at 1.5x the median income (under $100,000 in the US).

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#74
post #65
post #4

This might be a very non American problem, but people forget that there are social pressures to follow when you are middle class that cost more money.

There is no middle class anymore. What you mention are lower class pressures. Middle-class pressures, back when there was one , meant you were expected to get a new car every year. There were reasons for that, back then: tetraethyl lead additives in the gasoline destroyed engines in no time. But it was not a big drain on middle-class people, just an expense to keep up with. "They" have been very, very good at convinc…

My parents were middle class, maybe upper middle class. They felt exactly zero pressure to get a new car every year. Yes, this was still in the days of leaded gasoline.

I think, rather than "they" convincing people, that you have made up a definition of "middle class" that exists only in your own mind. It doesn't correspond to either the real world or to the definition that the rest of us are using.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#75
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US income curve is now strongly bi-modal. One hump for upper class, another for lower. Very few people are near the middle, where the middle class once was. Evidence? Because I don't think the US income distribution looks like this at all. [Edit: Oh, you've got your own definition of "middle", which is completely different from what everyone else in this conversation is using. With your definition of "middle",…

this is the distribution. https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distri... OP is just making stuff up arbitrarily

You wish.

But I remember an America that still had a middle class. It wasn't like this.

My father grew up on a farm, upper middle class. He carried around a roll of $100 bills, and once bought an airplane on the spot, out of it (plus the motorcycle he rode up on). By the time I went to college, we were mid-lower middle, and I worked my way through (took 7 years), but there still was one.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#76
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strengthen your statement to say that almost everyone can't afford it. Median household income is around $67K in the US, and the median household assets (minus the house) at age 65-69 is $75K. So even if a third of your income is being replaced by social security, a typical household has not even two years of income saved. A 25th percentile household has less than 5 months! Most people save basically nothing,…

> median household assets (minus the house) at age 65-69 is $75K Why would you take out the house? For most people that's a key part of their retirement. Going into retirement as a renter or with a $500k home paid outright is one of the biggest difference makers.

Selling your house takes time. In a bad economy, it could take a lot of time. Knowing your "liquid" net worth has some value.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#77
post #68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take is not based in reality. An individual income of $200k put your firmly in the top 10% of income earners in the US. But the claim is they are lower class? This seems really disconnected with reality. I’m not sure you understand what life is like for the average American.

I understand very, very well. The average American lives in a hellscape, one serious illness removed from homelessness. If you can imagine losing your home to illness, you are lower class like the rest of us. Upper class is what they call the 1%. Most of us are among the other 99%.

[deleted]

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#78
post #61

The hell of it is, he still isn't middle class. The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore. He is just no longer at the very bottom of the underclass. He is now mid-lower lower class. It is impossibly hard for most people not in the upper class in the US to conceive of just how impossibly far they are from that upper class. $100k/yr? Lower class. $200k/yr? Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your k…

> The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore

Like most capitalist societies historically, the US still has a middle class (petit bourgeoisie.)

Like most capitalist societies, this class is fairly small (not as small as the upper class, the haut bourgeoisie, though), generally high-income group, defined by relying on a mix of labor and capital income, both being important (or applying their own labor, rather than overwhelmingly rented labor, to their own capital.)

The idea of a middle-income “middle class“ was always a lie to divide the working class and protect both upper classes against them.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#79
post #68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take is not based in reality. An individual income of $200k put your firmly in the top 10% of income earners in the US. But the claim is they are lower class? This seems really disconnected with reality. I’m not sure you understand what life is like for the average American.

I understand very, very well. The average American lives in a hellscape, one serious illness removed from homelessness. If you can imagine losing your home to illness, you are lower class like the rest of us. Upper class is what they call the 1%. Most of us are among the other 99%.

Sorry, no. Your hyperbole doesn’t match up with the typical experience. I have had family members with serious illness, who are lower class (truly lower class, not the top 10% as you claim lower class are) and no, it didn’t make them homeless.

If you’re making $200k per year you’re richer than 90% of Americans who globally are some of the wealthiest in the world.

Claiming someone making $200k is “lower class” comes across as self-pity and a complete lack of perspective.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#80
post #65
post #4

This might be a very non American problem, but people forget that there are social pressures to follow when you are middle class that cost more money.

There is no middle class anymore. What you mention are lower class pressures. Middle-class pressures, back when there was one , meant you were expected to get a new car every year. There were reasons for that, back then: tetraethyl lead additives in the gasoline destroyed engines in no time. But it was not a big drain on middle-class people, just an expense to keep up with. "They" have been very, very good at convinc…

I don't know why you're claiming middle class people used to get a new car every year. It used to be that a man with a high-school education could provide fairly well for his family as the sole breadwinner. But a new car every year is fantasy.
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