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On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

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Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#61
The hell of it is, he still isn't middle class. The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore. He is just no longer at the very bottom of the underclass. He is now mid-lower lower class.

It is impossibly hard for most people not in the upper class in the US to conceive of just how impossibly far they are from that upper class. $100k/yr? Lower class. $200k/yr? Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your kids through college, and still make your house and car payments, replacing your car every year or two. Yes, that was what middle-class people used to do.

What happened to the middle class? It was eliminated, by explicit political policy. The US income curve is now strongly bi-modal. One hump for upper class, another for lower. Very few people are near the middle, where the middle class once was. Those few are either tacking to get to the upper class, probably futilely, or are well on their way out of it, and won't be back.

The Republican Party discovered that they could get lower-class people to vote against their own interests, and for the interests of the upper class, by convincing them they were not lower class. Now half the country votes mainly to try to keep the desperately poor from taking what they have managed to scrabble together, and in the process ensure the extremely rich get extremely richer and don't have to pay for anything, and especially not let any of it go to those same voters.

Up until around 1970, Americans' income was on a relentless rise. That had stopped by 1980, and has been more or less level, since. The income didn't go away, at all. The total amount has skyrocketed, since, going up at the same rate as before. Just, rich people get all of the difference, everything from that line down to the flat line describing what they have left for the rest of us. All this is policy, and the program to get there was spelled out in the Powell Memorandum, which you can read online.

During COVID lockdown and supply-chain upsets, they got insanely more money, somehow, again at the rest of our expense.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#62

This is something I really struggle with. I'm now middle class, but the horror of growing up poor still sticks with me. I have severe nightmares about being poor again, I just can't go back. I tend to overwork, and hoard thing at times. The most difficult thing these days, is my kids. I'm extremely happy that they don't know how bad things can be, but I get extremely worried by that too. I get worried, that they don'…

There is no middle class anymore. That has been eliminated by deliberate policy.

At best you are mid-upper lower class. If you have any worry about being able to get along if you lost your job and had a major life-threatening illness, you are still lower class like the rest of us.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#63
post #61

The hell of it is, he still isn't middle class. The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore. He is just no longer at the very bottom of the underclass. He is now mid-lower lower class. It is impossibly hard for most people not in the upper class in the US to conceive of just how impossibly far they are from that upper class. $100k/yr? Lower class. $200k/yr? Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your k…

> The US income curve is now strongly bi-modal. One hump for upper class, another for lower. Very few people are near the middle, where the middle class once was.

Evidence? Because I don't think the US income distribution looks like this at all.

[Edit: Oh, you've got your own definition of "middle", which is completely different from what everyone else in this conversation is using. With your definition of "middle", I could see there not being many people there. I still don't think the distribution is bi-modal, though.]

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#64
post #53

20 years ago I was living in a $100 car with 3 immovable doors that I had to push start and repair every day. I was working 80 hour weeks doing day labor in the mornings and telemarketing in the evenings. I also sometimes did truck deliveries, street magic, random tech gigs from craigslist, PC repair. If there was a craigslist ad with a problem I would learn enough to solve it well enough to get paid and get referral…

Just wanted to say genuinely well done, this is an inspirational post. What would you say kept you going back then? What was your motivation?

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#65
post #4

This might be a very non American problem, but people forget that there are social pressures to follow when you are middle class that cost more money.

There is no middle class anymore. What you mention are lower class pressures.

Middle-class pressures, back when there was one, meant you were expected to get a new car every year. There were reasons for that, back then: tetraethyl lead additives in the gasoline destroyed engines in no time. But it was not a big drain on middle-class people, just an expense to keep up with.

"They" have been very, very good at convincing lower-class people they are now middle class. It worked! Fully half the voting population imagines, when they think they are voting to keep their own money away out of the poors' hands, really are voting to keep extreme rich peoples' money in the rich peoples' hands, along with most of what could have been the voters' money, besides.

They have got so good at it, people actually elected an out-and-out confidence grifter to the Presidency, and helped stage a coup attempt to keep him there.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#66
post #61

The hell of it is, he still isn't middle class. The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore. He is just no longer at the very bottom of the underclass. He is now mid-lower lower class. It is impossibly hard for most people not in the upper class in the US to conceive of just how impossibly far they are from that upper class. $100k/yr? Lower class. $200k/yr? Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your k…

This take is not based in reality.

An individual income of $200k put your firmly in the top 10% of income earners in the US.

But the claim is they are lower class?

This seems really disconnected with reality. I’m not sure you understand what life is like for the average American.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#67
post #11

I can relate to a lot of this, I was pretty stinking poor growing up. Now I make good money. (I still buy used tires from shady lots tho). But even now that I'm making good money, it boggles my mind how richer everyone else still seems. Like, how do so many young people have a favorite island in Hawaii? How is everyone out there affording new cars? People actually picked a college major without thinking about cost? O…

All platitudes aside, comparison really is the thief of joy. Lots of people have very different situations from what they project (witting or unwittingly), they might be running up debt to pay for their lifestyle or maybe they have profitable small side businesses, and bartend for the bills and social aspect. Focus on your journey, and where you are on the path, don't get distracted with people "passing" you on short…

I know someone who was doing the equivalent of the bartending thing. Her grandfather was loaded and all major expenses taken care of. She kept it quiet but would give coworkers a ton of shit for general life things that she didn’t have to worry about. “sorry I’m late I had a flat tire.” “That’s not an excuse. You should have found a way to get new tires so you’re not late like me.”

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#68
post #66
post #61

The hell of it is, he still isn't middle class. The US doesn't even have a middle class anymore. He is just no longer at the very bottom of the underclass. He is now mid-lower lower class. It is impossibly hard for most people not in the upper class in the US to conceive of just how impossibly far they are from that upper class. $100k/yr? Lower class. $200k/yr? Still lower class: you still can't afford to send your k…

This take is not based in reality. An individual income of $200k put your firmly in the top 10% of income earners in the US. But the claim is they are lower class? This seems really disconnected with reality. I’m not sure you understand what life is like for the average American.

I understand very, very well. The average American lives in a hellscape, one serious illness removed from homelessness. If you can imagine losing your home to illness, you are lower class like the rest of us.

Upper class is what they call the 1%. Most of us are among the other 99%.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#69
post #68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take is not based in reality. An individual income of $200k put your firmly in the top 10% of income earners in the US. But the claim is they are lower class? This seems really disconnected with reality. I’m not sure you understand what life is like for the average American.

I understand very, very well. The average American lives in a hellscape, one serious illness removed from homelessness. If you can imagine losing your home to illness, you are lower class like the rest of us. Upper class is what they call the 1%. Most of us are among the other 99%.

This may be more of an indictment on medical costs in the US than on income distribition.

Re: On Being Rich-ish: Lessons I learned becoming suddenly middle-class

#70

> We are slightly terrified at all times of losing these things. This is something that folks that came from The Other Side of the Tracks have. I came from there. People my age have grandparents (or, in some cases, parents) that lived through The Great Depression, and they have this, writ large. I still basically live pretty low on the hog, even though it is not necessary. This recession is an annoyance; not a disast…

> We are slightly terrified at all times of losing these things.

This is something practically everybody in the US has. They are right to be terrified. The overwhelming majority of us are one life-threatening illness away from homelessness.

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