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Go Ahead, Sell My Data

kevinjcurtin.com

71–80 of 114 posts

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Even if they don't they can get hacked (c.f. psn). This is the worst problem IMO.

> they can get hacked To elaborate on this a bit, it might not even be necessary for them to get hacked from the outside. It's certainly not impossible for a malicious Google or Facebook employee to acquire (and sell) data.

There are public cases of this happening with both Google and Facebook.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/google-spy/ http://gawker.com/5445592/why-you-shouldnt-trust-facebook-wi...

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#73
post #11
post #8

I agree, but most people probably haven't thought it through, or if they have considered it, they're stuck on the revelation that they are the product, not the customer. Perhaps some of these companies should be more up front about 'the deal' to their users, and what its boundaries are.

What is wrong with being both? To me it seems like a mutually beneficial relationship. I am getting tremendous value from using their site to interact with and stay connected with friends. They are using my data to make money by serving me unobtrusive ads that don't really negatively impact my user experience. I do think that being more upfront and more transparent would be a good thing, there are alot of misconcepti…

> by serving me unobtrusive ads that don't really negatively impact my user experience

I'm not a heavy Facebook user, but what you said certainly does not apply to google.

What was once unobtrusive ads now are just ads cleverly disguised as search results in a very faint slightly different background-color box. They wanna pass the ads down as search results and that certainly impacts user experience.

These guys are wise enough not simply through the ads in there altogether, they let you grow accostumed, than just enlarge then a slight bit every now and then. That is not a mutually beneficial relationship, that's an abusive relationship.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#74
post #59
post #46

I will give you one example. Somebody uploads my picture to Facebook and tags me in it. Facebook now matches my face to my name - forever. I can't ask them to forget that they know me, I can't ask them to delete that data, and I can't get a new face (although sometimes I would like to). Facebook now has that information forever and I played no part in them obtaining it. They could launch a feature tomorrow where you…

I met your friend yesterday and he was showing me some pictures from a camping trip he took last week. I asked "who's that guy standing to your left" and he told me it was you. Now I know what you look like, forever, and you can't ask me to forget or delete that either. I don't see the problem here.

You don't see it because you aren't looking for it, and are probably not interested in it. You're just unilaterally opposing a viewpoint.

I'll make it easy - you're not an oracle on the identities of 500 million people, no matter how many camping photos you look at. When you are, we'll be uncomfortable about you as well.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#75
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Facebook were simply showing me ads for stuff I mentioned, or something like that, I would have no objection. "Hmm, this guy keeps posting about hats. He must like hats. Let's show him some ads for hats!" No problem. That's basically what I thought would happen when I signed up. I did not expect that when I visited cnn.com, after having logged into Facebook a week earlier, Facebook would log which articles I read.…

It's not obvious to me. How were you harmed by facebook logging this data?

If I sign up to a video store and suddenly some guys are watching inside my windows all the time to check whichever videos I might enjoy more, no, that would not be ok with me.

It's harmful because it's abusive.

Next year they will want more revenue, so how deeper will they go for that, will they break my windows open and storm the house?

I know it's an exageration, but it ilustrates my point.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#76
All the arguments that defend Facebook e.a come down to: "making money trumps human rights".

There's no arguing about this subject with people who believe that people should not have the right to control their own data, just as there is really no arguing with people who don't believe in the value of free speech or the right to vote.

This is not meant as an insult. Believe what you believe. But if you want to argue the reality of negative consequences, please pick up some history books first. And if you do business in my part of the world, respect the local law.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#77
I'm not sure the poster understands. The information that is sold can be and is linked up with other information. The big consumer database companies in the United States maintain databases with thousands of fields of data per person in the U.S.A. That's today (or ten years ago). Tomorrow, or ten years from now, it will probably be hundreds of thousands of fields of data per person in the United States. Your consumer profile, readily available for sale, will include not only the fact that your favorite tampon brand is Tampax Ultra with Wings (that's already there) but also that you take medication for incontinence (that's already there) and that you spend 15 minutes every day at the local coffee shop during working hours (beep! This app requests to know your location Y/N?) and that you view a disproportionate number of webpages dealing with alcoholism and depression on days after days in which you have purchased 2L bottles of Wild Turkey.

Facial recognition is shortly going to render every digital photo and video ever uploaded to the net FULLY IDENTIFIABLE as to all of the people pictured. Coming in 2020: a startup (or Facebook plugin) that traces your entire life through publicly available photos and videos.

Kevin Curtin has a very limited imagination regarding the privacy apocalypse that is upon us. The data shadow that follows every person around is already huge, and will become gargantuan. It's already inescapable and out of your control.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#78
post #58
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is _Internet_, you know, the place where everything is public. what is the username and password to your online banking account?

You are obviously missing the point but let me humor you: When you access a bank you are publicly trading the information between you and the bank. That means that if somebody on your LAN sniff your cookies (and SSL wouldn't be used) you could use their account on their bank website. So yeah, bank info is public as well. You cannot use the internet and expect things to be completely private like you can't go in a bar…

[deleted]

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#79
post #58
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is _Internet_, you know, the place where everything is public. what is the username and password to your online banking account?

You are obviously missing the point but let me humor you: When you access a bank you are publicly trading the information between you and the bank. That means that if somebody on your LAN sniff your cookies (and SSL wouldn't be used) you could use their account on their bank website. So yeah, bank info is public as well. You cannot use the internet and expect things to be completely private like you can't go in a bar…

That means that if somebody on your LAN sniff your cookies (and SSL wouldn't be used) you could use their account on their bank website.

But I use SSL when I connect to facebook. And its not the data facebook collects as it files over the wire that is being called into question here, it is the actions of Facebook once they have the data.

The point the parent post was driving at is: Is it OK for the bank to do anything they want with my personal data just because they (like facebook) happen to operate on the internet?

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#80

I'm not sure the poster understands. The information that is sold can be and is linked up with other information. The big consumer database companies in the United States maintain databases with thousands of fields of data per person in the U.S.A. That's today (or ten years ago). Tomorrow, or ten years from now, it will probably be hundreds of thousands of fields of data per person in the United States. Your consumer…

The first time someone takes facial recognition software and allows the public to easily apply it to amateur porn, there's going to be some fireworks.

That uber-detailed personal profile used without your consent worries me a bit less - while we'll get to the same place, it'll be completely because of voluntary sharing of information. You'll want that profile, because it'll save you lots of money.

People tend to worry that negative things will happen to them if information about them is used without their consent - for instance, your example might worry that his insurance premiums will go up because he's buying Wild Turkey in bulk and surfing pages on alcoholism.

This will never happen.

In reality, positive things will happen to people when they freely consent to share positive information about themselves - and as those people are rewarded, the pool of people who don't share becomes riskier and is therefore economically punished for not sharing.

Two examples that are with us today:

-- Car insurance. Students with better grades tend to have less accidents, so you can get a better insurance policy from your provider by voluntarily turning over your grades. Since turning over your grades is a simple thing, the result is predictable - if you don't turn over your grades, it's safe to assume you have bad grades (and therefore are an accident risk). You've kept your privacy, but your premiums are still going up.

-- College tuition. To qualify their kids for student loans and aid, parents have to supply full documentation about their income. Parents do so voluntarily, because it can only benefit them - but this means if you don't submit documentation about your income, the college can safely assume you have a lot of money, and you get charged the highest possible tuition. Keeping your income private could cost you tens of thousands of dollars a year.

When personal information starts being used for things like insurance premiums, Blue Cross won't be creeping through your credit card receipts without your permission - instead, they'll invite users to voluntarily share their web, purchase, or location history, and they'll use it to reward them with a discount. As more and more users do so and are rewarded for the healthy lifestyles reflected in their data, the body of people not bothering to share will get riskier, and their premiums will rise.

Same outcome, no privacy violations.

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