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One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

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Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#71
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minecraft has supported cross platform multiplayer for a while now, so it would be really weird if they broke compatibility with PC like this.

Mimd you, there are two versions of Mimecraft. Java and Bedrock. Both support PC but only Bedrock supports other plattforms. Cross Plattform multiplayer therefore only works with bedrock. Java isn't compatible with bedrock servers and the other way around.

> Both support PC but only Bedrock supports other plattforms.

You mean Bedrock supports consoles.

Java supports Mac and Linux, so it's also multiplatform. Just different platforms.

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#72

Man. I really do want to like it, but this update is the first one that gives me the Microsoft-finally-took-over vibes. Traversal and with that exploration just became so much harder. The landscape is now riddled with holes that you either build scraggly bridges over, or lead to massive detours. The sides of bodies of water are much higher and steeper on average, making it impossible to see the landscape you're passi…

I'm no Microsoft apologist, but I believe you've misunderstood the intention and the effect of the changes. Previously, the time-optimal strategy to acquire iron and diamonds was to dig a hole deep into the earth and then bore straight paths. This was exceptionally grindy (fans would say zen, detractors would say tedious), but effective. With 1.18, the optimal strategy is now to enter a cave and find the resources th…

Is the strategy you're talking about (digging straight down upon spawn, as I've seen people do) just applicable to speedrunning, or does your average player learn to do that eventually as well?

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#73

Man. I really do want to like it, but this update is the first one that gives me the Microsoft-finally-took-over vibes. Traversal and with that exploration just became so much harder. The landscape is now riddled with holes that you either build scraggly bridges over, or lead to massive detours. The sides of bodies of water are much higher and steeper on average, making it impossible to see the landscape you're passi…

I'm no Microsoft apologist, but I believe you've misunderstood the intention and the effect of the changes. Previously, the time-optimal strategy to acquire iron and diamonds was to dig a hole deep into the earth and then bore straight paths. This was exceptionally grindy (fans would say zen, detractors would say tedious), but effective. With 1.18, the optimal strategy is now to enter a cave and find the resources th…

> I believe you've misunderstood the intention and the effect of the change.

No, and I don't think I have made any comment on the intention. I understand what they were going for. My point is specifically what you are saying: It massively changes the game play. If I wanted different game play I would play a different game. Every update so far, including the ones since MS takeover have felt like natural progression of the game to me. I enjoyed those updates and have lots of good things to say about them and the way they expanded the game.

This update feels to me like it should have been a different game, or a mod. That's the contrast I was trying to highlight with my comment.

It's worth noting I'm not claiming anything as a fact. I was stating my personal opinion and concern for the direction the game is headed in, relative to my own expectations, after a decade of playing Minecraft. I explained why I think that way, because we're on HN.

> The holes in the ground that you dislike are entry points to that system

Those existed before, just that covering them and getting the materials for it if you're not a fan of big craters and abysses in the ground wasn't a project of its own before.

> So the transition is from a static grind to the new system based on cave exploration and risk.

Cave exploration and mob bashing is still grinding. This will get old fast if you just want to get to it and build your base or whatever self assigned goal you have.

> It's more dynamic and engaging, directly the opposite of your claim here.

That is entirely subjective.

> You point out that it makes it more difficult to go from one peak to the next, which is accurate (though in my opinion you overstate the difficulty)

That wasn't my claim, no. I said it is now more difficult to see directly from the water, because the landscape is raised so much relatively the water. Overcoming that is just tedious, not difficult, because you have to get out of the boat every so often to get a view of the landscape.

For me it is comparable to amplified maps no longer being opt-in, basically. It's fun for a change, but not the game experience I am looking for most of the time. Now I no longer get to pick unless I stick with old versions, which of course sucks for online play.

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#74
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow. I did not realise this was the case. Thank you!

I think this actually might be a slight negative tbh - since everything is split into chunks and generated on demand, you lose the ability to do larger passes over multiple chucks at gen time. No real way to do tectonics or weather patterns as you don't necessarily know what's in your chunk neighborhood.

You could do much larger chunks on gen.

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#75
post #7

Does anyone know if the new generator is used on unexplored parts of previous save games?

Also, you can use mcaselector to delete the parts of your old saved games where you haven't built anything and let them regen with the 1.18 algo. I just did that with a save and the new terrain smoothly blended in with the old.

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#76
post #13

It's been a while since I've played Minecraft, so I can't speak to the newer terrain. But I always thought they could significantly improve the world gen. Perlin noise is cool, but why not try to fully simulate plate tectonics, weather patterns, drainage? It would go a long way if deserts were in the rainshadow of mountain ranges, islands corresponded to real volcanic activity, etc. I guess there is a limit to what y…

It is stunningly difficult to do something like this within procedural generation. Remember a given xyz coordinate has to generate given only the coordinate number itself and a seed. You couldn't do stuff like plate tectonics within an "infinite" world because that would require generating every block which is akin to generating every digit of pi

You could set up domain boundaries where everything in that domain is relatively isolated from other domains. When nearing an ungenerated domain, do the procedural + evolutionary generation and handle the borders blending. Domains could be tectonic plates. This would cause hitches on exploration, but they would be relatively infrequent and overall few since domains would be so large.

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#77
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minecraft has supported cross platform multiplayer for a while now, so it would be really weird if they broke compatibility with PC like this.

Mimd you, there are two versions of Mimecraft. Java and Bedrock. Both support PC but only Bedrock supports other plattforms. Cross Plattform multiplayer therefore only works with bedrock. Java isn't compatible with bedrock servers and the other way around.

> Both support PC but only Bedrock supports other plattforms.

Both support windows, but only Java supports other open platforms (where you can install external software, like Linux and Mac PCs, or others OSes/HW architectures).

Bedrock is only published on closed platforms (games consoles, mostly, and app stores) and windows.

Java is the only edition that supports mods.

The android version of bedrock is also unofficially playable on Linux.

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#78

If you like voxel world generation, I strongly advise you to check out Veloren[1], it has a much much deeper worldgen that what Minecraft offers. [1]: https://veloren.net/ the game is still under development but it has been playable for more than a year now.

The Veloren developers seem to have forgotten to provide a page of information _anywhere_ giving a non-negligible overview of what the game is about. The main website has little more than a paragraph listing some other games as inspiration, followed by some Minecraft-like screenshots. It also has a manual which is clearly focused on developers and contributors, as it provides next to no information for a new person who just wants to know a bit more about the game without having to actually download it. How is it similar to Dwarf Fortress? How is it similar to Minecraft? How is it different? What do you do in it? Why is it so much work just to find an overview of the game and what it has to offer?

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#79
post #16

The new terrain is great, but I have mostly exhausted my patience with Minecraft survival. I hope future releases will put some effort into reducing the grindyness. I know many things can be automated but they tend to rely on extremely arcane game mechanics rather than feeling like an intentional part of the game. Some elements of Factorio were inspired by Minecraft. I think Minecraft could now use some inspiration f…

Have you considered modded to get a little more Factorio in your minecraft? I'm playing the "Create: Above & Beyond" pack. There is grind, the pack gives you a goal (build rocket, go to moon), but how you get there is up to you and the automation isn't quite so arcane as vanilla, and doesn't rely on "magic blocks" (Where you plonk down a single block and it magically does all the things) instead relying on you making…

I've pushed java far past its breaking point in previous modded minecraft worlds (30 second GC every 30 seconds, some AE2 leak when millions of items are stored).

I like many aspects of bedrock edition, most related to performance. I want a gregtech-like experience in bedrock so badly that I'd go as far as making it myself. I just wish the command interface wasn't so janky. When I've done test blocks and interactions in the past I've run into limitations that would prevent my vision. This was maybe 18 months ago, so I don't think much has changed yet.

Re: One decade later, Minecraft world generation is interesting again

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so user-unhostile I wanna cry. Most companies just want the power to force antifeutures on the users nowadays.

The Microsoft acquisition of Minecraft is inexplicably one of the few big tech acquisitions that hasn't completely destroyed the product. It's impressive

One way Microsoft improved the product was to remove all mentions of Markus "It's OK To Be White" Persson's name from the game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson#Controversy

>Controversy

>Persson has received criticism for political and social opinions he has expressed on Twitter, such as referring to feminism as a "social disease" and claiming that most feminists are "overtly sexist against men."[50][51] In June 2017, Persson faced criticism for referring to video game developer Zoë Quinn as a "cunt".[50] Later in June 2017, he tweeted in support of a heterosexual pride day, calling opponents to the idea "cunts" and stating that they "deserve to be shot".[51] After facing backlash, he deleted the tweets and rescinded his statements, writing "So yeah, it's about pride of daring to express, not about pride of being who you are. I get it now."[52] In November 2017, Persson was criticized for posting a tweet which reads "It's ok to be white."[53] In follow-up tweets, he said he believed privilege is a "made up metric".[54]

>A March 2019 Minecraft update removed all mentions of Persson from the game's menu, though his name is still in the credits.[55] Microsoft did not explain this action, but its timing led multiple news outlets to conclude it was related to the controversies associated with him.[55][56] Persson was not invited to the game's tenth anniversary event later that year, with Microsoft saying that his views "do not reflect those of Microsoft or Mojang".[8][57] Microsoft then dissociated from Persson due to his controversial comments on his Twitter account.[8]

"It's okay to be white":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_okay_to_be_white

Minecraft Creator Tells Women on Twitter ‘Act Like a Cunt, Get Called a Cunt’:

https://observer.com/2017/06/minecraft-gamergate-markus-pers...

Minecraft’s Creator Excluded From the Game’s 10th Anniversary Due to Racist, Sexist, Transphobic Comments

https://www.themarysue.com/notch-minecraft-bad-comments-and-...

Minecraft Creator Sparks Cries of Homophobia

https://fortune.com/2017/07/02/minecraft-markus-persson-homo...

‘Minecraft’ Creator Excluded From Anniversary Due to ‘Comments and Opinions’ (EXCLUSIVE)

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/minecraft-creator-exclu...

The Creator of Minecraft Tweeted Some Dumb Stuff About Race

https://www.gq.com/story/notch-whiteness-tweets

Microsoft removes references to game creator Notch in latest Minecraft update

https://www.techspot.com/news/79403-microsoft-removes-refere...

Some References to ‘Minecraft’ Creator Notch Removed From Game

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/notch-removed-minecraft...

Minecraft creator Notch won't be included in the game's 10 year anniversary event

https://www.vg247.com/minecraft-creator-notch-absent-from-an...

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