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Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

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Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#71

Post by Salgat »

bink wrote: post #38
akerl_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elastic is welcome to license their code how they want. If they want to write a license that says “to use our code, everything down to the billing stack must be open source”, they’re welcome to. But when they license their code and then throw a tantrum when Amazon uses the code in line with the license, I’ve got no sympathy for them.

This is one of those rare situations where I can see both sides and I'm thankful I don't have to make the decisions Elastic.co did. Most open source companies don't have to worry too much about competitors grabbing their code and forking it because they have the expertise needed to improve and support it and there isn't much incentive for customers to leave them. But this is Amazon we're talking about. They can packa…

One could argue AWS brought much more attention to Elasticsearch than Elastic could have ever hoped for on their own.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#72

Post by EschatonCometh »

DanielVZ wrote: post #19
atonse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Tech or on principle? We are using Amazon ES but leaves a lot to be desired. But I don’t know how much of that is just ES and how much is Amazon

We are doing the transition and everything is just so smooth. Adding new nodes is easy and fast. There's an actually good and consistent UI. Last time we tried to upgrade our cluster version on AWS we ended up waiting for weeks until it randomly updated mid day on a busy day and broke everything. It's a ton of small things that really make a difference.

You can upgrade instantly on AWS, it doesn't take weeks. A lot of problems with AWS Elasticsearch Service are caused by corporations trying to squeeze a dollar out of a dime.

T2 and T3s with no Master Nodes, let alone three, leads to a lot of problems.

When everything lives in MMAP'd memory and you are nickel and dime'n it with 4GB and one CPU. You're going to have a bad day.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#73

Post by solarkraft »

jusonchan81 wrote: post #57
josephcsible wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us. We're not. We're aligning with them because they happened to do something legitimately good. Being a villain doesn't mean that literally everything you do is bad.

I’m curious though, did Elastic’s license change impact you in anyway? Were you planning on offering Elasticsearch as a managed cloud offering? What exactly is the legitimate good Amazon did here?

> Were you planning on offering Elasticsearch as a managed cloud offering?

What can make me certain I won’t ever need it? Ecosystems without monopolies tend to be more robust.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#74

Post by simlevesque »

mohanmcgeek wrote: post #58
simlevesque wrote: post #3

I changed from AWS managed ElasticSearch to Elastic.co a couple of months ago. Should have done it sooner.

If the elastic product were better, they shouldn't have bait-n-switched the licence to non-free. They would have competed on the merits of the product. Looks like whoever is making these decisions is not familiar with what made them popular with Devs in the first place.

Nah, they compete on merit and they have the clear better product. But AWS has the inertia and massive user base.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#75

Post by thrixton »

jusonchan81 wrote: post #57
josephcsible wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us. We're not. We're aligning with them because they happened to do something legitimately good. Being a villain doesn't mean that literally everything you do is bad.

I’m curious though, did Elastic’s license change impact you in anyway? Were you planning on offering Elasticsearch as a managed cloud offering? What exactly is the legitimate good Amazon did here?

I for one was. We have a platform whereby we need to expose logs and metrics to our clients, elastic/open search is a great option for this, unfortunately, being a non-opensource SaaS, elastic's license precludes it. Different discussion as to whether we should pay elastic as we can't afford to, currently.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#76

Post by unityByFreedom »

deeblering4 wrote: post #68
unityByFreedom wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're literally keeping the source open. Call Amazon out for other stuff, not this. Enough with this good vs. evil attitude. People and companies are more complex than that and have varied interests. They do not fall neatly into one camp or the other.

I’m not so sure, they are also continuing to build a walled garden elk hosting alternative and already invested a lot of development into open distro for elasticsearch. People often run this software on their compute, so obviously eliminating proprietary license complications makes that an easier option for their customers to deploy, and redirects some of that licensing money into the customer’s aws spend. Don’t get…

You are not so sure that the world is not black and white? I assure you it's in color. Perhaps we do live in The Giver and only a few people realize this after all.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#77

Post by kjsingh »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #9

If I was a mole for Amazon working at Elasticsearch, I can’t think of a better way to accelerate the shift onto AWS’s offering than breaking client comparability with previous versions of Elasticsearch. If a customer needs to upgrade the client for some reason, they are forced to update the server as well. Maybe they’ll just update the client and server to OpenSearch while they’re at it so they don’t have any more fo…

like that didn't happen

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#78

Post by pritambaral »

jusonchan81 wrote: post #41
tapoxi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Elastic do the hard work, or Lucene?

There is a ton of work on top of Lucene. And Lucene is still OSS. So yes what Amazon is doing is stealing Elastic’s work. I’m sure this will change how every other company is the OSS world will operate from now on. CockroachDB for example is already preventing a monopoly like Amazon from taking over.

> There is a ton of work on top of Lucene.

1. All of which is useless without Lucene. In fact, it wouldn't have been possible without Lucene. Thus, by your own twisted argument, Elastic "stole" Lucene's work.

2. Not all of the code in ElasticSearch is written by Elastic. Co. It's not their sole codebase. They have no monopoly on it. Maybe if they never took in contributions from others, but they did.

> And Lucene is still OSS.

OpenSearch is still OSS. The ES base that OS forked from is also OSS.

> ... a monopoly like Amazon from taking over.

Now I know you're being dishonest. Amazon never had a monopoly on ES, it still has no monopoly on OS. It's Elastic (like CockroachDB, that you mention) that are trying to enforce an artificial monopoly. Of themselves.

If you want to find out whether ES is really the "little guy" or the "monopolist", try providing a hosted service of their latest release and see how they react. It doesn't matter if you've contributed code to ES before, it doesn't matter if you're the most prolific contributor to Lucene.

It doesn't matter if you can build a better version of ES or provide better service. Elastic Co. (and CockroachDB Inc.) will simply not allow you to compete.

----

For once, try pointing the finger fairly, at everyone. Try judging everyone with the same set of laws/morals. Hold your heroes to the same standards, at least, as your villians.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#79

Post by nextaccountic »

_msw_ wrote: post #67
dhd415 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially considering ~11 of the Apache Lucene committers are Elastic employees as well as 10 members of the Apache Lucene Project Management Committee.

Disclosure: I work for AWS where I build infrastructure services that sit low in the stack. I am a relative novice when it comes to Java-heavy codebases like Apache Lucene, Elasticsearch, or OpenSearch. But I know a thing or two about Open Source and Communities. I think it is hazardous to count the number of committers and PMC members that are part of a project that is built at the Apache Software Foundation. It is…

I think it's reasonable to expect that corporate citizens worth billions of dollars would do their fair share of open source contributions. I'm curious why you think this is bad for community health.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#80

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #47
atarian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Amazon is the good guy This is exactly what Amazon wants you to think. That's why they're calling it "OpenSearch" and not "AmazonSearch".

They're literally keeping the source open. Call Amazon out for other stuff, not this. Enough with this good vs. evil attitude. People and companies are more complex than that and have varied interests. They do not fall neatly into one camp or the other.

When we say company we tend to subconsciously level them to any other business,

But there's absolutely no way a company at the scale of Amazon could have got there without hiding some skeletons in the closet so it's good for the society in general to view ~~companies~~ Mega Corp. which has more money(read power) than several countries combined together always with suspicion.

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