Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#11

Post by josephcsible » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:44 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #10

josephcsible wrote: post #8

Remember that in this story, as strange as this is to say, Amazon is the good guy. Elastic changed their products from a FOSS license to a proprietary one, and Amazon did exactly what you're supposed to do in that case: fork and continue development of the last FOSS version.

They changed the license after Amazon took all their revenue.

I don't fault Elastic for choosing to change their license. I fault them for their choice of the new one. They should have moved to the AGPL instead, like Grafana did under basically the exact same circumstances.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#12

Post by echelon » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:44 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #8

Remember that in this story, as strange as this is to say, Amazon is the good guy. Elastic changed their products from a FOSS license to a proprietary one, and Amazon did exactly what you're supposed to do in that case: fork and continue development of the last FOSS version.

> Amazon is the good guy in this story

That is so twisted.

Elastic did all of the hard work. Amazon came in and took it.

Open source is fair when there aren't giants plucking it out of the hands of workers and co-opting it into their massive platform options with god-tier leverage. You can't compete in that world.

We need licenses even stronger than the AGPL to require that platforms running the code are open all the way down to the billing stack.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#13

Post by josephcsible » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:48 AM UTC

google234123 wrote: post #2

This is consequence of open source.

This is the consequence of closed source. If Elasticsearch were still open source, then Amazon wouldn't have had any reason to do this. Elastic is getting exactly what they deserve.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#14

Post by tapoxi » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:50 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #12

josephcsible wrote: post #8

Remember that in this story, as strange as this is to say, Amazon is the good guy. Elastic changed their products from a FOSS license to a proprietary one, and Amazon did exactly what you're supposed to do in that case: fork and continue development of the last FOSS version.

> Amazon is the good guy in this story That is so twisted. Elastic did all of the hard work. Amazon came in and took it. Open source is fair when there aren't giants plucking it out of the hands of workers and co-opting it into their massive platform options with god-tier leverage. You can't compete in that world. We need licenses even stronger than the AGPL to require that platforms running the code are open all the…

Did Elastic do the hard work, or Lucene?

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#15

Post by thayne » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:53 AM UTC

Good. I wonder if some of this mess could have been avoided if AWS had used a different name to begin with.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#16

Post by DanielVZ » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:55 AM UTC

tapoxi wrote: post #14

echelon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon is the good guy in this story That is so twisted. Elastic did all of the hard work. Amazon came in and took it. Open source is fair when there aren't giants plucking it out of the hands of workers and co-opting it into their massive platform options with god-tier leverage. You can't compete in that world. We need licenses even stronger than the AGPL to require that platforms running the code are open all the…

Did Elastic do the hard work, or Lucene?

There's so much on top of lucene that I'd say both

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#17

Post by Sebb767 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:57 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #12

josephcsible wrote: post #8

Remember that in this story, as strange as this is to say, Amazon is the good guy. Elastic changed their products from a FOSS license to a proprietary one, and Amazon did exactly what you're supposed to do in that case: fork and continue development of the last FOSS version.

> Amazon is the good guy in this story That is so twisted. Elastic did all of the hard work. Amazon came in and took it. Open source is fair when there aren't giants plucking it out of the hands of workers and co-opting it into their massive platform options with god-tier leverage. You can't compete in that world. We need licenses even stronger than the AGPL to require that platforms running the code are open all the…

You could similarly say that Apache did the hard work with Lucene, then Elastic came and took it. Except, of course, if you think that simply hosting is not worth any money, but then Elastics own paid offering is void as well.

I really don't fault Elastic for disliking the situation; someone making billions with you work while you're still counting coins sucks. But they reached their size due to OpenSource and AWS, so painting them as the profitless victim really does not show the whole picture. And their handling of the situation so far was horrible; they've even gone so far as to embed code in their client libraries so that they don't work with Amazons offering.

So yes, in conclusion, Amazon really has the moral high ground here.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#18

Post by dhd415 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:00 AM UTC

DanielVZ wrote: post #16

tapoxi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Elastic do the hard work, or Lucene?

There's so much on top of lucene that I'd say both

Especially considering ~11 of the Apache Lucene committers are Elastic employees as well as 10 members of the Apache Lucene Project Management Committee.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#19

Post by DanielVZ » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

atonse wrote: post #7

simlevesque wrote: post #3

I changed from AWS managed ElasticSearch to Elastic.co a couple of months ago. Should have done it sooner.

Why? Tech or on principle? We are using Amazon ES but leaves a lot to be desired. But I don’t know how much of that is just ES and how much is Amazon

We are doing the transition and everything is just so smooth. Adding new nodes is easy and fast. There's an actually good and consistent UI.

Last time we tried to upgrade our cluster version on AWS we ended up waiting for weeks until it randomly updated mid day on a busy day and broke everything.

It's a ton of small things that really make a difference.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#20

Post by akerl_ » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #12

josephcsible wrote: post #8

Remember that in this story, as strange as this is to say, Amazon is the good guy. Elastic changed their products from a FOSS license to a proprietary one, and Amazon did exactly what you're supposed to do in that case: fork and continue development of the last FOSS version.

> Amazon is the good guy in this story That is so twisted. Elastic did all of the hard work. Amazon came in and took it. Open source is fair when there aren't giants plucking it out of the hands of workers and co-opting it into their massive platform options with god-tier leverage. You can't compete in that world. We need licenses even stronger than the AGPL to require that platforms running the code are open all the…

Elastic is welcome to license their code how they want. If they want to write a license that says “to use our code, everything down to the billing stack must be open source”, they’re welcome to. But when they license their code and then throw a tantrum when Amazon uses the code in line with the license, I’ve got no sympathy for them.