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The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

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Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#71

Post by JadeNB »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #26

In college I took a class on Turkish / Ottoman history that was incredible, except for when we covered the genocide. The professor clearly had been thoroughly educated on the subject, but had internalized a very different understanding of the sequence of events, and of course never called it a genocide. What I took away from that class was how ingrained the official Turkish version of events is in the historiography…

> In college I took a class on Turkish / Ottoman history that was incredible, except for when we covered the genocide. The professor clearly had been thoroughly educated on the subject, but had internalized a very different understanding of the sequence of events, and of course never called it a genocide. What I took away from that class was how ingrained the official Turkish version of events is in the historiography and how even experts in history of that reason don't believe, or want to believe, that a genocide took place.

How had the professor been educated, and what was their perspective? Were they Turkish?

(A bare sequence of questions can seem confrontational, so let me be clear that I don't mean that—I'm just curious about what the teaching looks like from the "different understanding" point of view.)

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#72

Post by sorokod »

m00dy wrote: post #17
baybal2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because historians has long since written the last stroke on the event? It has been only a century since to reconstruct events thoroughly from first sources. Similarly, it's beyond obscene to demand a revision of holokost when there are still living, breathing survivors who toiled in death camps.

I have never seen death camps in Turkey

Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_ez-Zor_camps

Not in present day Turkey, which is probably why you missed it.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#73

Post by 29athrowaway »

anonu wrote: post #65

The story here is an age-old struggle of East vs West, and more specifically of Christianity vs Islam. The parallels with the past, centuries before the Genocide, and the present, are clear. This is a battle that will continue. I support the US's long overdue stance on the matter. It is important to remember what it symbolizes. I wished we lived in a kinder, gentler world. But we have atrocities occurring all over th…

Which Christians? Catholics? Protestants?

Which Islam? Sunni? Shia?

That seems like an oversimplification.

Then, the US is a country where only a few decades ago eugenics was legal and interracial marriage was illegal. And not so long ago 50% of the country was willing to vote for an openly racist guy.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#74

Post by JadeNB »

apostacy wrote: post #27
ismaildonmez wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erdoğan thinks himself as the last Ottoman Emperor standing (c.f. The Third Reich), that’s why no way in hell he’ll accept any atrocities that Ottomans committed.

Facebook has shown themselves completely willing to remove content at the request of the Erdoğan government. If they deplatform critics of Erdoğan, why would they also not be willing to deplatform anything else that Erdoğan does not like, like discussion of the Armenian Genocide? And maybe this is why we should consider the consequences of encouraging deplatforming of people we don't like. My other comment pointing o…

> And maybe this is why we should consider the consequences of encouraging deplatforming of people we don't like.

But it's as easy to point to the dire consequences of persisting in amplifying the voices of people spewing hateful rhetoric as it is to point to the people silenced to protect the interests of the powerful. I think treating this as a one-sided problem with an obvious answer does it an injustice.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#76

Post by FiatLuxDave »

ismaildonmez wrote: post #3

As a guy born in Turkey I’m happy that this is finally getting the recognition it deserves. On the other hand, finding any neutral resource about the First World War in Turkey is hard to come by. The best resource I’ve found so far is written by a German General called Otto Liman von Sanders, he wrote a book called “Five Years in Turkey” [0] talking about 1913 - 1918. It at least has some parts on the events which wi…

I don't know if you would take this as a neutral resource, but if you are interested in this subject, you may find the writings of Henry Morgenthau Sr. interesting. He was the U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire during the period when the USA was neutral in WWI. He also happened to be a friend of my great-grandfather.

In particular I would recommend "I was sent to Athens" (link: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL6734490M/I_was_sent_to_Athen...) and the section on the 1922 Izmir Fire.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#77

Post by frostburg »

habibur wrote: post #43
throwawaymylove wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder when the US will fully recognize the North American Native Genocide and build a monument in DC - hopefully in proportion to the monument in NYC.

I have bad feeling Turkey's president might go that route and bring it up as a retaliation.

Very possible but deeply misguided. The US government for all its faults isn't a dictator that has to posture against internal dissent AND most americans don't care.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#78

Post by anonu »

29athrowaway wrote: post #73
anonu wrote: post #65

The story here is an age-old struggle of East vs West, and more specifically of Christianity vs Islam. The parallels with the past, centuries before the Genocide, and the present, are clear. This is a battle that will continue. I support the US's long overdue stance on the matter. It is important to remember what it symbolizes. I wished we lived in a kinder, gentler world. But we have atrocities occurring all over th…

Which Christians? Catholics? Protestants? Which Islam? Sunni? Shia? That seems like an oversimplification. Then, the US is a country where only a few decades ago eugenics was legal and interracial marriage was illegal. And not so long ago 50% of the country was willing to vote for an openly racist guy.

I would suggest reading the article linked. It is pretty good and thorough and answers your questions.

Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth

#80

Post by 29athrowaway »

docdeek wrote: post #7
grahamjpark wrote: post #4

Interestingly this is the second article I’ve seen today about Armenia: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/24/armenia-azerbaijan-war-...

It is (at least in France) Armenian Genocide Rememberence Day. It could be a reason there are a few different Armenian stories out there.

Does France have a "Rememberence" day for this too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_use_of_chemical_weapon...

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