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Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

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Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way to keep someone out is to lock the door. You can create penalties, punishments, hire security guards to watch the door. But the most efficient and effective way is just a lock.

That's absolutely not true. Most doors are trivial to pick and as easy to break down. The main, and usually only, real reason for the lock on the door is to serve as a physical symbol which establishes a particular legal status of the property behind the doors, with associated consequences for unlawful entry. The legal apparatus - penalties, punishments - is what deters crime. Lock is an XML tag made of matter. (The…

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Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#72

Whenever end-to-end encryption is not used, scenarios like these are bound to happen eventually. As far as I know, the only home surveillance products that use E2EE are ones that support HomeKit Secure Video [1]. 1. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210538

Why would end-to-end help when it's the other end that's watching?

In this context, "end to end" means being encrypted between the camera and the user's devices they use to watch the camera, with the cloud service acting as an intermediary between the two, and unable to decrypt the data.

Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#73

What's a good cloudless setup? I've got a couple zwave devices, and have been looking into OpenHab. Win10 compatibility would be a bonus, as well as the ability to run my own OpenCV video analysis and voice recognition stacks...

I'm working on IP cameras sending their video to Surveillance Station on my Synology NAS. Totally local recording, and was super easy to setup with some random IP cam I had laying around.

My plan is to run cable for PoE cameras soon. Will have 24/7 recording, but accessible only locally.

Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#74
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have none. a tv crew could set up outside your house and record indefinitely. or even go through your trash. People are allowed to record public spaces. It's just bad behavior and the consequences are social

Sounds super illegal and not GDPR compliant. You're not allowed to tape my private property without my consent. At least in Europe.

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Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locked doors can kill if a fire breaks out in your house.

Typically, at least in the US, a locked door can be opened from the inside without a key for that reason.

So while that is true (and not to go too far off into the weeds on an analogy), in an emergency, people are trying to follow procedure under pressure and the odds of error in operation of an interface increase. You want the interface that is used in an emergency situation to either be well practiced or absolutely as intuitive as possible.

To destructure the analogy and give a concrete example, if I'm dying of allergic shock I don't want my doctor unable to access my medical history because somebody in the process can't remember how to "break glass" on the encryption on my medical records, even if there's a procedure to do so. I want my records in plain text format and as readable as possible.

Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#76

What's a good cloudless setup? I've got a couple zwave devices, and have been looking into OpenHab. Win10 compatibility would be a bonus, as well as the ability to run my own OpenCV video analysis and voice recognition stacks...

Ubiquiti’s offerings can all run 100% locally. I have my entire setup using PoE so each only needs a single cable.

What do you use for motion detection? I've found the Unifi NRV motion detection to be very poor. Especially raining at night.

Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way to keep someone out is to lock the door. You can create penalties, punishments, hire security guards to watch the door. But the most efficient and effective way is just a lock.

That's absolutely not true. Most doors are trivial to pick and as easy to break down. The main, and usually only, real reason for the lock on the door is to serve as a physical symbol which establishes a particular legal status of the property behind the doors, with associated consequences for unlawful entry. The legal apparatus - penalties, punishments - is what deters crime. Lock is an XML tag made of matter. (The…

I must disagree, although I find what you are saying an important part of the defenses, and likely a larger issue in certain parts of the country and certain neighborhoods..

I think the gp is not 'absolutely not true'.. I have a fair amount of hobby interest experience dealing with petty thieves / criminals for the past couple decades; studying them locally and through polls and news articles... stories about locked up thieves admitting they will generally skip houses that have big dogs and security systems for example.

Certainly there are certain types of people to take into consideration from what you are mentioning, and petty criminals vary from locale to locale in significant ways sometimes. From what I understand places like frisco often have car hoppers busting out windows of cars on a regular basis, however in my area they generally only check for doors to be locked or unlocked when choosing to rummage through a car. A portion of the criminals around here will make an exception and bust a window if they see a purse or briefcase, but generally move on to the next without making too much noise, for example.

In most neighborhoods seeing someone crouched down playing with a door lock would attract attention and likely calls to the police. Kicking in a door would also create an amount of noise that brings attention the average criminal does not want to deal with.

Sure if a delivery person has seen you have a box of gold and sapphires next to the door (or notice your vintage guitar collection hanging on the walls while trick or treating) - they may target you with a door kick / other means of juice that is worth the squeeze..

but most of the thieves in my area will skip the locked houses and move to the next softer target. (often ringing the doorbell to see if anyone is home first)

I don't think most petty thieves are willing to learn lock-picking, even though it's easier to learn today than it was 20 years ago.. The added time it takes is not really worth it. (for most in most situations)

It's easier to find a neighbor that has a window air conditioner that can be pushed in with ease (at least around here, this technique in Minnesota may not be used as often)

The only place I can think of in regards to "establishes a particular legal status of the property behind the doors, with associated consequences for unlawful entry." would be Kennesaw, Ga - every person who lives there has a gun - there, the legal status of kicking in a locked door and it's associated consequences are proportionally different than most apartments in NY.

Some of the street thugs know that robbing with tools (that can be labeled burglary tools) carries an extra charge, just like robbing with a loaded gun is different time for the crime of stealing using threat of other force..

I do agree that certain situations / threats make "The additional, secondary role of a lock is being a trivial inconvenience. Not enough to deter a thief determined to rob your place, but enough for a thief determined to rob a place to skip yours and pick a different one." true - but that does not make the above statement absolutely not true.

I think you are both right.

Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#78

Whenever end-to-end encryption is not used, scenarios like these are bound to happen eventually. As far as I know, the only home surveillance products that use E2EE are ones that support HomeKit Secure Video [1]. 1. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210538

Why would end-to-end help when it's the other end that's watching?

The other end should be you too?

Unless you intend for someone else to oversee your surveillance operation, your footage shouldn't leave your premises unless encrypted, using keys which don't leave your possession. You enter them out-of-band on the device on which you wish to watch remotely.

Is there some implied benefit to not encrypting end-to-end or are they just being lazy and using nothing more than TLS because security isn't really the goal?

Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#79

I was always skeptical of cloud-based camera solutions due to privacy & bandwidth concerns, but now that those concerns are being proven true and reported in mainstream outlets I can’t imagine any reason to purchase them now. Long-term prospects for Ring can’t be looking good.

Upcoming /s- It would really suck if someone could watch my front door. Like, they might know when my package arrives? Or what if someone checked my naked footage? /S I really don't care. Should I care?

The only reason you had to explain it was sarcasm is of course you should care. You sound like one of those "I have nothing to hide" people even though having something to hide is completely irrelevant. You're being spied on and you don't see any problems with that? And by the way, everyone has something to hide whether they know it or not.

Re: Ring fired employees for watching customer videos

#80
post #61

I have a couple of these devices outside along with some more traditional hardware going to a local DVR. I wanted cloud video storage in the event someone stole my dvr. I accept that someone someone may have access to this footage. I trust Amazon/Ring more than I trust some random Chinese company.

> I trust Amazon/Ring more than I trust some random Chinese company. Really? Why?

Because I worked at Amazon and I know how seriously they take data security.
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