How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion • Hacker News Board

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#71

Post by Fjolsvith » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:36 PM UTC

lagg wrote: post #64

Fjolsvith wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weak. Very weak. I'm not a heathen preacher. I will counter falsehoods I see, but I let people discover the religion themselves. If I were to tell other heathens how to practice their religion, I would be just as guilty as a christian for being judgmental looking down my nose. > Random viking-ish armor sellers on imgur do a better job than pagans at large in defending their spirituality if this thread is anything t…

Such expert casting aside of personal responsibility and character that - I would assume - defines the self-sufficient individual who can dance and play hard that defines a heathen. How does it feel knowing that a conservative catholic (tolkien) and ex-christian atheist southern american latino (me) care about - and wears - your aesthetic better than any nordic native or heathen in this thread so far? My convictions…

> How does it feel knowing that a conservative catholic (tolkien) and ex-christian atheist southern american latino (me) care about - and wears - your aesthetic better

Meh. Do what you like. However, if you feel there's a point to the topic that's lacking, feel free to look past any perceived personal slights and contribute constructively.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#72

Post by lagg » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 7:00 PM UTC

Fjolsvith wrote: post #71

lagg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such expert casting aside of personal responsibility and character that - I would assume - defines the self-sufficient individual who can dance and play hard that defines a heathen. How does it feel knowing that a conservative catholic (tolkien) and ex-christian atheist southern american latino (me) care about - and wears - your aesthetic better than any nordic native or heathen in this thread so far? My convictions…

> How does it feel knowing that a conservative catholic (tolkien) and ex-christian atheist southern american latino (me) care about - and wears - your aesthetic better Meh. Do what you like. However, if you feel there's a point to the topic that's lacking, feel free to look past any perceived personal slights and contribute constructively.

Perceived? You don't see why I would find someone responding to a bad faith link with another link to a $15 pamphlet about their religion offensive? Why should I treat that as anything else like how I'd treat a mormon operating in such a way.

Come on man. At least I put my money where my mouth is and showed my real and inoffensive (albeit highly aesthetic and nerdy) attachment to these symbols and why such generalizations are pretty unfair to perpetuate.

Of course, someone immediately ignored the point and judged me by the skin. But wouldn't have posted if it were unexpected. The quality of passionate social discourse on HN remains ass, world goes on.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#73

Post by lagg » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

forgottenpass wrote: post #66

lagg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Foreward: I get the point you're trying to make, so please don't interpret as argumentative at you , forgottenpass) I enjoy Tolkien's success. This is the point I'm trying to make. I'm a bystander here and would not even be aware of pagans beyond a superficial level had it not been specifically for the fact that their adherents have failed so badly at keeping their own tribe in check. I found out about all of this l…

>I'm a bystander here Are you? You might not be interested in the culture war, but the culture war is interested in you. >adherents have failed so badly at keeping their own tribe in check Keeping their "tribe in check" is a misnomer. They were annexed as the latest proxy battle in the larger cultural war. Why should the people deeper in the subculture have to take more ownership of that outcome than you do? It's not…

You know, that's a good point. And I can't deny that now I'm probably locked into it by loose (/very/ loose) association. But yes I poorly chose my words, I'm sorry.

Your example of branding is appropriate because at this stage I can't see paganism as anything more than a satire religion in the vein of bob or FSM or hell even the Twilight fanbase while we're at it. The edginess is all equally adorable.

They have half-remembered christianity-mingled rituals and holy men, probably. Just like how the Church of the Subgenius has a preacher and gospel and we're all adherents of Bob or the FSM when praying that our code runs. Only difference is that they pretend that it has age and significance that - for all they know - could be the result of christian priests wiping their butt with old norse practices as any correct ritualistic lineage.

I wish they would be honest about the fact that they are satirical. Things already readily not taken seriously are anathema to the fascist. So it wouldn't even be an issue if they were honest. No one is trying to appropriate Bob's face to be an edgy viking. Maybe they should get their branding together so people like me don't have to clarify it being for entertainment value only.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#74

Post by microcolonel » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 12:45 AM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #45

microcolonel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists. I don't get it, you let the people you detest tell you what (not) to do? Prominent Nazi party leadership was very fond of dogs, gardens, ice cream, roads, and a…

While that's true, there's elements that always stick more - try to claim you're just taking little mustaches or the swastika back.

> try to claim you're just taking little mustaches or the swastika back.

In what universe is Paganism as iconically linked to Naziism as simplified swastikas and almost-square moustaches?

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#75

Post by gnarbarian » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 3:44 AM UTC

lagg wrote: post #54

gnarbarian wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world where the media will gladly take the bait to claim the "OK sign" is a white supremacy symbol there's literally nothing you can do to avoid the absurd redefinition of symbols and words years down the road. just laugh at the hysteria and attempt to deprogram the people co-opted by this moral panic in your every day life.

Regardless of whether or not the poster above was bringing up that tired comparison in good faith. The point must still be made. The ADL specifically says to evaluate all things in context. Note the similarities in the caution they advise while evaluating here. The people - the cowards, the milk drinkers, the tools of the christian church and establishment - in this thread making the unwise choice of submitting their…

Don't let your adversaries dictate the rules for what is acceptable unopposed.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#76

Post by inflatableDodo » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 10:50 AM UTC

geofft wrote: post #67

inflatableDodo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>everything-I-do-is-right like the God of Abraham Are we talking about the same god? The god that orders his most observant follower to sacrifice his own child then changes his mind when he attempts to obey, the god that apologises with rainbows after committing genocide, the god that has to incarnate as a member of his own creation and then be sacrificed by others before he truly gets what it is like to be mortal? T…

That's a perfectly reasonable opinion to have! But it is not the opinion or mainstream theology of the religions themselves , which is my point.

>it is not the opinion or mainstream theology of the religions themselves, which is my point.

Depends what you mean. I described this take on the bible many years ago to my local minister, who was also the minister attached to my primary school and so would have been the person to give me my first bible, and he admitted that he was agnostic, but felt he did a lot of good in the community and if he went around telling people that he wasn't sure if God existed then they would probably stop listening to him.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#77

Post by gpvos » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 11:22 AM UTC

magduf wrote: post #27

notacoward wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. So have other religions. Millions of people use Christianity (especially the evangelical sort) as an excuse for their white-supremacist behavior. The intersection of religious and ethnic-supremacist beliefs even exists among some Muslim and Hindu adherents. I'm sure I could find other examples, despite the fact…

My viewpoint is different: religion is a way for a group of people to make themselves feel different and special ("we're the chosen ones!"), and a natural consequence of that is racism/supremacism. As for "most people" practicing their faiths with peace and respect toward others (meaning those not following the same faith), I'd say that most of history contradicts that claim.

That would go against the teachings of at least Christianity, and as far as I know also Islam and Hinduism. In practice, this is indeed an easy trap to fall into, humans being what they are.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#78

Post by magduf » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

gpvos wrote: post #77

magduf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My viewpoint is different: religion is a way for a group of people to make themselves feel different and special ("we're the chosen ones!"), and a natural consequence of that is racism/supremacism. As for "most people" practicing their faiths with peace and respect toward others (meaning those not following the same faith), I'd say that most of history contradicts that claim.

That would go against the teachings of at least Christianity, and as far as I know also Islam and Hinduism. In practice, this is indeed an easy trap to fall into, humans being what they are.

What teachings of Christianity? Throughout the Middle Ages, Christians were happy to burn people alive if they weren't Christian or weren't the right kind of Christian even. Are you going to try to convince me now that all these countless religious leaders throughout many centuries were wrong, and that I should instead listen to you, some random person on the internet who likely isn't even a devout Christian, on what the "correct" teachings are?

It's the same with Islam. I can easily find many Islamic religious leaders who will happily tell me that violence to promote their brand of Islam is good and right. Are you even a Muslim? No? Then why should I believe you over them about what the "correct" teachings are?

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#79

Post by inflatableDodo » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:50 AM UTC

Fjolsvith wrote: post #16

Accacin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying but one of the things I found attractive about the Norse gods was that they're not perfect. They are uncivilised at times! For me at least, I found I could relate to them better because of their faults.

Exactly! And they are living gods. I never knew until well into my adulthood that Odhinn and Thor had been calling to me all my life.

I like archetypal deities, to me they kind of represent the standing waves in causality that occur once you get to biological levels of complexity, in much the same way that fundamental particles emerge when looking at simpler levels of detail.