How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion • Hacker News Board

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#21

Post by dagw » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

ycgeu wrote: post #20

bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

True white supremacists who are proud of their culture are Christian. Only edgelords (the "Jesus was a kike on a stick" type) are pagan. Nobody cares about edgelords. Anyway the fact that you're posting here leads me to think you should be old enough not to care what others think of your beliefs.

To the extent that that white supremacist groups in Norway and Sweden at least show any outwards signs of "religion" I'd say that variations on theme of Asatru are by far the most dominant.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#22

Post by Andrex » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

brodo wrote: post #14

geofft wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those gods are morally ambiguous: they're not everything-I-do-is-right like the God of Abraham (in any of the religions that worship him). It's an accurate part of the news and implying that Loki is a paragon of virtue would be misleading people about the subject. And "Heathenry" is a term used by practitioners of this faith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry_(new_religious_movem... If it's got a negative c…

The god of the old testament is morally ambiguous too. The christians defined the evil aspects away and made humanity responsible for all evil in the world.

The religion itself presents God as doing good; pagan religions don't have such framing, thus the classification "morally ambiguous."

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#23

Post by mc32 » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

I think there can be an aspect of racism, but I don’t think it’s the main driver.

People want to keep their thing “theirs”.

There are also questions, valid or not, about co-opting and appropriation. If we use some of these metrics then aspects of other minority interest groups can be also seen in a negative light.

In all cases, racism can be an issue with a minority of the people in these groups who make the experience for outsiders (and some insiders) unpalatable to say the least.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#24

Post by notacoward » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

> Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists.

So have other religions. Millions of people use Christianity (especially the evangelical sort) as an excuse for their white-supremacist behavior. The intersection of religious and ethnic-supremacist beliefs even exists among some Muslim and Hindu adherents. I'm sure I could find other examples, despite the fact that most religious people practice their respective faiths with peace and respect toward others.

So I'd say don't feel bad about it. The more counterexamples there are, the weaker the white-supremacists' excuse becomes. If you want to honor your own heritage without denigrating others', more power to you.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#25

Post by microcolonel » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:26 PM UTC

bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

> Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

I don't get it, you let the people you detest tell you what (not) to do?

Prominent Nazi party leadership was very fond of dogs, gardens, ice cream, roads, and a lot of the other nice things about being alive after the industrial revolution; you're just going to let them have all that stuff?

Chances are that for 99% of the things you like, there exists a contingent of racists who like it just as much.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#26

Post by angersock » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

Well thank God that there are no practicing racists or ethnosupremicists using Islam or Judaism!

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#27

Post by magduf » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #24

bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

> Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. So have other religions. Millions of people use Christianity (especially the evangelical sort) as an excuse for their white-supremacist behavior. The intersection of religious and ethnic-supremacist beliefs even exists among some Muslim and Hindu adherents. I'm sure I could find other examples, despite the fact…

My viewpoint is different: religion is a way for a group of people to make themselves feel different and special ("we're the chosen ones!"), and a natural consequence of that is racism/supremacism.

As for "most people" practicing their faiths with peace and respect toward others (meaning those not following the same faith), I'd say that most of history contradicts that claim.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#28

Post by magduf » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #25

bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

> Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists. I don't get it, you let the people you detest tell you what (not) to do? Prominent Nazi party leadership was very fond of dogs, gardens, ice cream, roads, and a…

>Prominent Nazi party leadership was very fond of dogs, gardens, ice cream, roads, and a lot of the other nice things about being alive after the industrial revolution; you're just going to let them have all that stuff?

Actually, I'd be happy to let them have the dogs. Dogs smell bad and are just a big pain in the ass if you live in an urban environment. They just aren't good indoor pets, and I have no idea why every single woman these days has to have one.

As for roads, we'd be better off with fewer roads and more railroads and trains. But Hitler was famous for getting the trains running on time...

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#29

Post by Fjolsvith » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

Andrex wrote: post #22

brodo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The god of the old testament is morally ambiguous too. The christians defined the evil aspects away and made humanity responsible for all evil in the world.

The religion itself presents God as doing good; pagan religions don't have such framing, thus the classification "morally ambiguous."

And good for the Christian god means anything that benefits that god. Murdering children at the passover. Murdering people at the flood. Ad nauseam...

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#30

Post by magduf » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

Andrex wrote: post #22

brodo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The god of the old testament is morally ambiguous too. The christians defined the evil aspects away and made humanity responsible for all evil in the world.

The religion itself presents God as doing good; pagan religions don't have such framing, thus the classification "morally ambiguous."

>The religion itself presents God as doing good

Does it? I seem to remember a part in the Old Testament where the Abrahamic god orders his followers to commit genocide against some other tribe. How is that "doing good"?