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How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

bbc.com

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Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#61

Post by yellowapple »

asveikau wrote: post #55
bashwizard wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't really be bothered by the tiny minority of inbred racists and fascists using anything related to paganism. We scandinavians sure don't.

No offense or judgment meant at all, but isn't Iceland due to its geographical isolation a relatively homogeneous gene pool? As in, famously the topic of studies. So in other words don't listen to inbred racists, listen to more chill inbred people who kick back with a beer and praise Odin inclusively, with whoever happens to show. Sounds about right.

I mean, at least Islanders try not to be inbred (IIRC genetic testing and such is a huge deal over there specifically to keep that from being a problem).

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#62

Post by yellowapple »

the_af wrote: post #46
seabj0rn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't this the case with any religion? You could say the same thing about the Westboro Baptist Church to Christianity and Radical Islamist Extremism to Islam. Every religion I can think of has instances of groups co-opting the religion for evil means. All major world religions have multiple instances of this happening throughout history. One could say that you don't have a legitimate religion if there isn't a gro…

Any religion can be used as an excuse for right-wing extremism and hate, but I think Norse-related religions are particularly attractive to neonazis because of the specific attention the Nazis and the SS paid to their symbology, and to their (bullshit) notion of superior Aryan and Norse "races". The Nazis were obsessed with this. That their mythology was also mostly bullshit is less relevant; it doesn't matter whethe…

There's also the even-lower-hanging fruit: Vikings were "badass" and "hardcore" and stereotypically too busy raping and pillaging to care about silly things like "women's rights" or "minority welfare" or "climate change". They also happened to be white, unlike the similarly-stereotyped Mongols and Huns further east.

Those two factors lend themselves to white supremacists wanting to model themselves on those stereotypes, never mind that reality was much more nuanced than those stereotypes (which developed specifically from the English complaining about their invaders rather than from any actual understanding of Scandinavian culture/society) or that hardly any of these white supremacists would make much of a Viking warrior (stereotypical or otherwise) anyway.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#63

Post by Fjolsvith »

lagg wrote: post #56
Fjolsvith wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Runa-Edreds-Shorter-1988-1994/dp...

You are a heathen, yes? I want you to compare this excuse of a response - devoid of passion, identity or character to show people why being a heathen is wonderful - to my argument above in this thread. An argument made by a simple LOTR fanboy who has to deal with Cirth being inspired by writing systems related to paganism in only an auxilary way. I made the case that it's the height of foolishness to cede an entire s…

> Weak. Very weak.

I'm not a heathen preacher. I will counter falsehoods I see, but I let people discover the religion themselves. If I were to tell other heathens how to practice their religion, I would be just as guilty as a christian for being judgmental looking down my nose.

> Random viking-ish armor sellers on imgur do a better job than pagans at large in defending their spirituality if this thread is anything to go by.

I don't use HN as a platform for"defending my spirituality". I engage when the topic comes up, but it is not my life mission to convert unbelievers.

> For the sake of your religion and Tolkien

Tolkien isn't part of my religion.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#64

Post by lagg »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #63
lagg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are a heathen, yes? I want you to compare this excuse of a response - devoid of passion, identity or character to show people why being a heathen is wonderful - to my argument above in this thread. An argument made by a simple LOTR fanboy who has to deal with Cirth being inspired by writing systems related to paganism in only an auxilary way. I made the case that it's the height of foolishness to cede an entire s…

> Weak. Very weak. I'm not a heathen preacher. I will counter falsehoods I see, but I let people discover the religion themselves. If I were to tell other heathens how to practice their religion, I would be just as guilty as a christian for being judgmental looking down my nose. > Random viking-ish armor sellers on imgur do a better job than pagans at large in defending their spirituality if this thread is anything t…

Such expert casting aside of personal responsibility and character that - I would assume - defines the self-sufficient individual who can dance and play hard that defines a heathen.

How does it feel knowing that a conservative catholic (tolkien) and ex-christian atheist southern american latino (me) care about - and wears - your aesthetic better than any nordic native or heathen in this thread so far? My convictions seem to be stronger despite this being the spiritual equivalent of how tourists use egyptian hieroglyphics.

Don't worry, I'll have flavor and force of will for your religion's (objectively speaking, very awesome) aesthetic SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

https://i.imgur.com/EX3fLpS.jpg

Is this a thing vikings did by the by? No wonder the confusion between what ritual survived as pagan and what became christian and vice-versa is so muddled. It's like lifting pollen from fields! Just straight up, boot-to-face subservience. Tsk tsk.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#65

Post by roywiggins »

magduf wrote: post #30
Andrex wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The religion itself presents God as doing good; pagan religions don't have such framing, thus the classification "morally ambiguous."

>The religion itself presents God as doing good Does it? I seem to remember a part in the Old Testament where the Abrahamic god orders his followers to commit genocide against some other tribe. How is that "doing good"?

God is good, by definition. It's just built into the Christian belief system. Men can do evil, but God can't. The question of how evil can exist at the same time as an all-benevolent God is such a hard problem that it even has a nifty name.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#66

Post by forgottenpass »

lagg wrote: post #60
forgottenpass wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>its adherents allowed it to be labeled in this way and therefore make me feel like I did something wrong for getting something from a fictional book. This is spiritual cowardice on a level so profound it affected fiction. Pathetic. Ugly and pathetic. Someone else should have done the hard work of defending the reputation, so you could enjoy their success? Are you sure you want to be calling them cowards from that po…

(Foreward: I get the point you're trying to make, so please don't interpret as argumentative at you , forgottenpass) I enjoy Tolkien's success. This is the point I'm trying to make. I'm a bystander here and would not even be aware of pagans beyond a superficial level had it not been specifically for the fact that their adherents have failed so badly at keeping their own tribe in check. I found out about all of this l…

>I'm a bystander here

Are you? You might not be interested in the culture war, but the culture war is interested in you.

>adherents have failed so badly at keeping their own tribe in check

Keeping their "tribe in check" is a misnomer. They were annexed as the latest proxy battle in the larger cultural war. Why should the people deeper in the subculture have to take more ownership of that outcome than you do?

It's not about the thing anymore, it's about branding the thing Team Edward or Team Jacob, and anyone who wants to go back to Team Not Getting Involved is run out on suspicion of vampirism/werewolfism.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#67

Post by geofft »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #32
geofft wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those gods are morally ambiguous: they're not everything-I-do-is-right like the God of Abraham (in any of the religions that worship him). It's an accurate part of the news and implying that Loki is a paragon of virtue would be misleading people about the subject. And "Heathenry" is a term used by practitioners of this faith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry_(new_religious_movem... If it's got a negative c…

>everything-I-do-is-right like the God of Abraham Are we talking about the same god? The god that orders his most observant follower to sacrifice his own child then changes his mind when he attempts to obey, the god that apologises with rainbows after committing genocide, the god that has to incarnate as a member of his own creation and then be sacrificed by others before he truly gets what it is like to be mortal? T…

That's a perfectly reasonable opinion to have! But it is not the opinion or mainstream theology of the religions themselves, which is my point.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#68

Post by geofft »

brodo wrote: post #14
geofft wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those gods are morally ambiguous: they're not everything-I-do-is-right like the God of Abraham (in any of the religions that worship him). It's an accurate part of the news and implying that Loki is a paragon of virtue would be misleading people about the subject. And "Heathenry" is a term used by practitioners of this faith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry_(new_religious_movem... If it's got a negative c…

The god of the old testament is morally ambiguous too. The christians defined the evil aspects away and made humanity responsible for all evil in the world.

The God of the Old Testament is not morally ambiguous in the point of view of Christians. That was my claim.

This news article is reporting on the beliefs of a Viking-age religion. It is not attempting to say that the actual gods of that religion are actually morally ambiguous.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#69

Post by stronglikedan »

lagg wrote: post #64
Fjolsvith wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weak. Very weak. I'm not a heathen preacher. I will counter falsehoods I see, but I let people discover the religion themselves. If I were to tell other heathens how to practice their religion, I would be just as guilty as a christian for being judgmental looking down my nose. > Random viking-ish armor sellers on imgur do a better job than pagans at large in defending their spirituality if this thread is anything t…

Such expert casting aside of personal responsibility and character that - I would assume - defines the self-sufficient individual who can dance and play hard that defines a heathen. How does it feel knowing that a conservative catholic (tolkien) and ex-christian atheist southern american latino (me) care about - and wears - your aesthetic better than any nordic native or heathen in this thread so far? My convictions…

> https://i.imgur.com/EX3fLpS.jpg

Coincidentally, when I picture the arm of someone who gets weirdly overly aggressive with random strangers online, that is the exact type of arm I see in my mind's eye!

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#70

Post by lagg »

stronglikedan wrote: post #69
lagg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such expert casting aside of personal responsibility and character that - I would assume - defines the self-sufficient individual who can dance and play hard that defines a heathen. How does it feel knowing that a conservative catholic (tolkien) and ex-christian atheist southern american latino (me) care about - and wears - your aesthetic better than any nordic native or heathen in this thread so far? My convictions…

> https://i.imgur.com/EX3fLpS.jpg Coincidentally, when I picture the arm of someone who gets weirdly overly aggressive with random strangers online, that is the exact type of arm I see in my mind's eye!

A videogame and book reference with crocs and PJs on? Yeah, seems even more foolish that I feel more identity with that look than real practitioners of its inspiration apparently do. :o
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