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How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

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Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#51

Post by the_af »

DennisP wrote: post #47
bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

I have a hard time picturing white supremacists feeling at home in the group described in the article. > “It’s about being honest, upright and tolerant,” Hilmarsson said. “Respect for nature is also important. You have to make sure you live in harmony with nature.” > The association rarely wades into politics, but it has made exceptions, most notably by campaigning for same-sex marriage

Whether it makes sense or not, "Norse" symbology and mythos seem attractive to neo-Nazis, I guess at least partly because of obvious 20th century reasons.

Someone else posted this link which claims it is indeed a real problem: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/as...

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#52

Post by DennisP »

the_af wrote: post #51
DennisP wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time picturing white supremacists feeling at home in the group described in the article. > “It’s about being honest, upright and tolerant,” Hilmarsson said. “Respect for nature is also important. You have to make sure you live in harmony with nature.” > The association rarely wades into politics, but it has made exceptions, most notably by campaigning for same-sex marriage

Whether it makes sense or not, "Norse" symbology and mythos seem attractive to neo-Nazis, I guess at least partly because of obvious 20th century reasons. Someone else posted this link which claims it is indeed a real problem: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/as...

I'm not denying that, I'm just saying that groups differ and clearly some are not right-wing, so anyone interested can be selective about it.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#53

Post by inflatableDodo »

Amezarak wrote: post #44
inflatableDodo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>everything-I-do-is-right like the God of Abraham Are we talking about the same god? The god that orders his most observant follower to sacrifice his own child then changes his mind when he attempts to obey, the god that apologises with rainbows after committing genocide, the god that has to incarnate as a member of his own creation and then be sacrificed by others before he truly gets what it is like to be mortal? T…

You misunderstand the point. 'Rightness' in Abrahamic theology is what God does and what he commands you to do, period. Everything he does is by definition right. This is very convenient as far as moral philosophy goes, since it provides an absolute and objective foundation. That's the sense in which he's the everything-I-do-is-right God of Abraham. The same is not true for the Nordic gods or the Greco-Roman gods. Th…

>You misunderstand the point. 'Rightness' in Abrahamic theology is what God does and what he commands you to do, period. Everything he does is by definition right.

I'm not missing the point, I am making the point that this is just what his followers say and if you read the bible as a story about this character god, then you can get a very different impression.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#54

Post by lagg »

gnarbarian wrote: post #40
lagg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thinking is why I have to dread the day someone calls me a white supremacist because of my Cirth tattoos. It's not even relevant to your viking nonsense. It's just LOTR. But people are being so submissive toward the peckerheads that they're just handing over entire spiritualities without a fight apparently and making it worse for people like me who aren't even in the fight. It's honestly pathetic. Heh. E…

In a world where the media will gladly take the bait to claim the "OK sign" is a white supremacy symbol there's literally nothing you can do to avoid the absurd redefinition of symbols and words years down the road. just laugh at the hysteria and attempt to deprogram the people co-opted by this moral panic in your every day life.

Regardless of whether or not the poster above was bringing up that tired comparison in good faith. The point must still be made.

The ADL specifically says to evaluate all things in context. Note the similarities in the caution they advise while evaluating here. The people - the cowards, the milk drinkers, the tools of the christian church and establishment - in this thread making the unwise choice of submitting their spirituality to peckerheads wholesale. Would do well to take note of that advisory:

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-h...

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/runic-...

I'm getting sick and tired of feeling bad for loving Tolkien because these so-called heathens and vikings are such fucking cowards. I'm in this thread giving your spirituality more defense than you are and I DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT IT.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#55

Post by asveikau »

bashwizard wrote: post #7
bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

You shouldn't really be bothered by the tiny minority of inbred racists and fascists using anything related to paganism. We scandinavians sure don't.

No offense or judgment meant at all, but isn't Iceland due to its geographical isolation a relatively homogeneous gene pool? As in, famously the topic of studies.

So in other words don't listen to inbred racists, listen to more chill inbred people who kick back with a beer and praise Odin inclusively, with whoever happens to show. Sounds about right.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#56

Post by lagg »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #49
empath75 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/as...

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Runa-Edreds-Shorter-1988-1994/dp...

You are a heathen, yes? I want you to compare this excuse of a response - devoid of passion, identity or character to show people why being a heathen is wonderful - to my argument above in this thread. An argument made by a simple LOTR fanboy who has to deal with Cirth being inspired by writing systems related to paganism in only an auxilary way.

I made the case that it's the height of foolishness to cede an entire spirituality and the foolishness only increases the more severe the generalizations get.

You linked a book. Like a christian links a bible study guide when they can't formulate the words required to express their point.

Good to know personal responsibility is present in heathens at volume similar to the christians I grew up with. Do better. For the sake of your religion and Tolkien, and for the sake of the ink I got to celebrate him.

Random viking-ish armor sellers on imgur do a better job than pagans at large in defending their spirituality if this thread is anything to go by. I am not joking in the slightest either. https://i.imgur.com/AZD4njS.jpg

Weak. Very weak.

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#57

Post by lagg »

bashwizard wrote: post #7
bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

You shouldn't really be bothered by the tiny minority of inbred racists and fascists using anything related to paganism. We scandinavians sure don't.

Oh yes you guys have made it abundantly clear you're not bothered. So much so that I understand now how that appropriation happened so swiftly that it leaked over into sides of the fence only tenuously related to paganism. Resulting in groups dedicated to damage control stemming from how not bothered you were about the problem initially. You just let anyone walk all over you passively and respond in ways similar to Christians - but less organized and somehow less spirited. Ironic given what the Christians did in my historical recollection.

Not really a viking or heatenistic attitude, when you think about it. I suppose that's why the fabled nordic hardiness is just that: fabled~

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#59

Post by forgottenpass »

lagg wrote: post #36
bluntfang wrote: post #3

Unfortunately a lot of the pagan and related spiritual movements are being coopted by white supremecists. I find this stuff fairly attractive as someone with Scandinavian heritage, but it seems like I've been overtaken in the space by racists and fascists.

This kind of thinking is why I have to dread the day someone calls me a white supremacist because of my Cirth tattoos. It's not even relevant to your viking nonsense. It's just LOTR. But people are being so submissive toward the peckerheads that they're just handing over entire spiritualities without a fight apparently and making it worse for people like me who aren't even in the fight. It's honestly pathetic. Heh. E…

>its adherents allowed it to be labeled in this way and therefore make me feel like I did something wrong for getting something from a fictional book. This is spiritual cowardice on a level so profound it affected fiction. Pathetic. Ugly and pathetic.

Someone else should have done the hard work of defending the reputation, so you could enjoy their success?

Are you sure you want to be calling them cowards from that position?

Re: How Iceland recreated a Viking-age religion

#60

Post by lagg »

forgottenpass wrote: post #59
lagg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thinking is why I have to dread the day someone calls me a white supremacist because of my Cirth tattoos. It's not even relevant to your viking nonsense. It's just LOTR. But people are being so submissive toward the peckerheads that they're just handing over entire spiritualities without a fight apparently and making it worse for people like me who aren't even in the fight. It's honestly pathetic. Heh. E…

>its adherents allowed it to be labeled in this way and therefore make me feel like I did something wrong for getting something from a fictional book. This is spiritual cowardice on a level so profound it affected fiction. Pathetic. Ugly and pathetic. Someone else should have done the hard work of defending the reputation, so you could enjoy their success? Are you sure you want to be calling them cowards from that po…

(Foreward: I get the point you're trying to make, so please don't interpret as argumentative at you, forgottenpass)

I enjoy Tolkien's success. This is the point I'm trying to make. I'm a bystander here and would not even be aware of pagans beyond a superficial level had it not been specifically for the fact that their adherents have failed so badly at keeping their own tribe in check. I found out about all of this long after I got the tattoos. But I still have to feel like a party to it for no reason but superficial resemblance of runic alphabets.

And yet I'm the only one that seemed to have been interested to expand upon my position so far. There's at least 3 heathens here by my count. I guess I'm fine with the notion that I'm a bigger badass than a self-proclaimed viking in this sense. Why shouldn't I call them cowards if I'm more willing to step up for a fictional mythos than one they consider a real part of their daily lives?

P.S. I am doing part of the hard work in defending their reputation for them by making a point about context. I will not feel like a bad person for wearing Cirth runes. And they will be with me forever, and I will happily discuss the difference with anyone who asks me. And when I do explain the difference it will start with "It's not actually norse or pagan, I know what you mean but those are dying niche religions used by rednecks and slavic meth heads, it sucks but you can't judge a writing system by it".

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