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‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

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Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#71

Post by nonbel »

alchemism wrote: post #66
nonbel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean something like this. It seems like just one person needs to do it, then it could be boilerplate since I see similar posts all over the place: > "The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care" -- What evidence is there for great strides being made? -- Regarding medical "care", there is an implication that care is a good thing. How well is this "care" translating to health, ra…

I can’t help but notice you ignored the content of the parent post entirely and answered the grandfather post instead.

The first link doesnt even contain a proper link/reference to their primary source (unless I missed it).

The second (at least the annotated version) does contain some good links, eg to the IPCC AR5 homepage. The AR5 is a thousand pages long document... and this page itself is also quite long (nothing wrong with that, but you should quote the section of interest).

But lets look at the second source a bit closer. Their first cited claim is:

"Indeed, absent a significant adjustment to how billions of humans conduct their lives, parts of the Earth will likely become close to uninhabitable, and other parts horrifically inhospitable, as soon as the end of this century."

If you hover over that they say the IPCC says a median (median meaning ~ 50-50 odds higher or lower) warming of ~4 C by the end of the century, yet that paper talks about at least 7 C of warming. So this first claim is simply not supported by the citations and I didnt bother going on.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#72

Post by eternalban »

tokyodude wrote: post #16
eternalban wrote: post #2

The catastrophe in 12 Monkeys is due to the action of a single individual - an ideologue concerned with the "biosphere". The pathology highlighted is ideological thought that justifies mass murder. Love certainly conquers all in this film. It is precisely love (here romantic love) that weaves an unalterable thread through time and binds the two individuals who are absolutely necessary for the future salvation of mank…

Did you watch some alternate edit? Love conquers nothing in the film.

Cole has no reason to seek Railly on his second time jump. He seeks her because he is in love with her. Railly also makes decisions contrary to cold reason and sticks with Cole.

Don't forget, they had sent multiple agents back in time. None had succeeded. The romantic relationship is a key element of the narrative.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#73

Post by justin66 »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #31
tunap wrote: post #7

While I loved 12 Monkeys story & most of TG's body of work, I must posit "Brazil" is more relevant in our non-fiction world than anything else he has done. I hesitate to note the multitude of similarities to our current state of information retrieval & bureaucracies. Zero Theorem seemed to touch the needle but sorta fizzled out mid-way(IMO). Yes, I did not RTFA.

I have to admit I still haven’t seen Brazil but it’s been on the to-Watch list for a long time. Zero Theorem just managed to depress the hell out of me for a week or so.

The thing you have to know about Brazil is, it's perfectly okay not to like Brazil at all. I can't call a movie most people have never seen "overrated," but people can get really weird about Brazil...

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#74

Post by tomohawk »

The message I got from the film is that when people give in to despair, they're prone to take actions that may have catastrophic consequences. The virologist has lost his faith (in whatever he may have had faith in) and has become a nihilist. nihilists are the most dangerous sorts of people, as they're likely to take any action at all, unconstrained by morality, ethics, or common sense.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#75

Post by jm__87 »

DennisP wrote: post #17
AJRF wrote: post #14

"I’ve been thinking about 12 Monkeys a lot lately. It seems, these days, as though the human race has passed a Rubicon and is now on a straight path toward the end of days, or at least the end of the social order as we know it." This feels a little unsubstantiated. Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This pessimism is toxic and unrealistic.

Historically speaking, the best time to own Bitcoin was back in January. Things always look great at the top of a bubble. CO2 is higher than in the past several million years and we're still adding more at our usual pace. We've killed 60% of wild vertebrate life since 1970, wiped out a large percentage of the insect population, and we're continuing the practices that caused that as well. None of this can go on foreve…

> if you model a simple assumption that resources get more expensive to extract over time

Why would you make this assumption? Resources get cheaper to extract over time as technology improves...

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#76

Post by api »

zdragnar wrote: post #64
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is far too controversial a view for HN, and for many Americans, we'll see. The terrorists absolutely won. Least that's my perception as a non-American. Your first mistake was legitimising them as "the enemy" When the IRA were bombing Docklands, Manchester or Birmingham pubs we'd make a poor taste joke the next morning, walk past the wreckage and forget about it the day after that. When the Baader Meinhof…

In a country of 325 million people, it seemed like there wasn't anyone who didn't know someone either affected or directly harmed by the 9/11 (11/9 as you call it) attacks. It didn't feel like "some poor saps over there got the short end of the stick" it felt like "we're all directly attacked". This wasn't the first time Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda reached out and touched us. Previously, we'd treated him more or les…

If their goal was to destroy our society, they certainly got quite far with that. Since 9/11 we have abandoned American optimism, openness, and sense of a positive future in favor of ideologies that more closely resemble the paranoid reactionary beliefs of the terrorists.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#77

Post by albedoa »

nonbel wrote: post #61
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right! https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/india-climate-chang... https://qz.com/india/1049730/heatwaves-could-turn-parts-of-i... https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/i... I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided. Did you really think I was just making up lies, and…

> "All right!" It isnt exceptional to ask for a source, no need for sarcasm. > "I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided." There was nothing hostile about it, just facts. Making those posts without sources is worse than useless if your goal is really to convince people you are correct. > "Did you…

It isnt exceptional to ask for a source, no need for sarcasm.

It is exceptional to expect or require sources for well-known ideas to be attached to every comment that alludes to or evokes them. None of us needed sources to understand the point that the OP was making.

can you extract the most relevant quotes from each and attach to your claims?

The trend here is that it will not be good enough for you. You asked for sources and got them. Now you are expanding your request. What's next in your list of demands after he extracts the most relevant quotes from each?

I'm baffled that you have made it this guy's job to hunt down and feed you primary sources because he wrote a comment that assumes some baseline knowledge.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#78

Post by hindsightbias »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56
ta_egdhs wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk why this is downvoted. the 90s is the period between the end of the cold war and the start of the war on terror. its the only time in living memory where there was no enemy. 9/11 absolutely changed the country. it was the start of militarized police, nationalistic displays, and 24/7 fear that have all been normalized today. Perhaps the terrorists didn't win (Bin Laden is dead and the house of Saud still stands) b…

Perhaps this is far too controversial a view for HN, and for many Americans, we'll see. The terrorists absolutely won. Least that's my perception as a non-American. Your first mistake was legitimising them as "the enemy" When the IRA were bombing Docklands, Manchester or Birmingham pubs we'd make a poor taste joke the next morning, walk past the wreckage and forget about it the day after that. When the Baader Meinhof…

The price of freedom isn’t the WOT or trillions for wars - it was 9/11 and accepting what a few handfuls of men could do in a one-off in a free society.

We can win every tactical battle, but we lost strategically.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#79

Post by lifeformed »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #57
nonbel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. It's not just a matter of rising sea levels; if things continue apace, large parts of the equator will be too hot for humans to survive by the end of this century, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be seeking sanctuary somewhere, anywhere." Do you…

All right! https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/india-climate-chang... https://qz.com/india/1049730/heatwaves-could-turn-parts-of-i... https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/i... I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided. Did you really think I was just making up lies, and…

The facts are a keystroke away, plain as day, shouted for years upon deaf ears. People who ask you to Google for them these answers aren't arguing in good faith. There's nothing left to debate, the details were figured out a long time ago.

At this point, I'm convinced that there are zero climate skeptics who really want to find answers; it's all willful ignorance or malice. It's comically stupid how the obvious truth is met with so much resistance. The desire to preserve the status quo is the strongest force in civilization.

On one side you have 99.9% of scientists saying that we're screwed. On the other side you have 0.1% of scientists paid by oil megacorp lobbyists saying it's fine. Hmm... what should one conclude?

On one hand you have politicians and the ultrarich saying everything is okay. on the other hand, the same politicians and rich people are quietly buying safe houses and building seawalls and preparing for doomsday. Oh and the military is training for and developing technologies to deal with the new scenarios. Hmm... what could it mean?

We're boiling alive fast enough that we can't handle it, but slow enough that we won't do anything about it. The last two people on earth are going to die arguing about why it's so hot.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#80

Post by DennisP »

nonbel wrote: post #71
alchemism wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t help but notice you ignored the content of the parent post entirely and answered the grandfather post instead.

The first link doesnt even contain a proper link/reference to their primary source (unless I missed it). The second (at least the annotated version) does contain some good links, eg to the IPCC AR5 homepage. The AR5 is a thousand pages long document... and this page itself is also quite long (nothing wrong with that, but you should quote the section of interest). But lets look at the second source a bit closer. Their…

It wasn't me who made the claim. It's what I found with a 30-second google. Here's another with links to two primary sources. https://www.cyi.ac.cy/index.php/in-focus/climate-exodus-expe...

There's plenty more. To really dive in, go with Six Degrees.

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