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‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

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Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#31

Post by 52-6F-62 »

tunap wrote: post #7

While I loved 12 Monkeys story & most of TG's body of work, I must posit "Brazil" is more relevant in our non-fiction world than anything else he has done. I hesitate to note the multitude of similarities to our current state of information retrieval & bureaucracies. Zero Theorem seemed to touch the needle but sorta fizzled out mid-way(IMO). Yes, I did not RTFA.

I have to admit I still haven’t seen Brazil but it’s been on the to-Watch list for a long time.

Zero Theorem just managed to depress the hell out of me for a week or so.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#32

Post by andrepd »

DennisP wrote: post #17
AJRF wrote: post #14

"I’ve been thinking about 12 Monkeys a lot lately. It seems, these days, as though the human race has passed a Rubicon and is now on a straight path toward the end of days, or at least the end of the social order as we know it." This feels a little unsubstantiated. Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This pessimism is toxic and unrealistic.

Historically speaking, the best time to own Bitcoin was back in January. Things always look great at the top of a bubble. CO2 is higher than in the past several million years and we're still adding more at our usual pace. We've killed 60% of wild vertebrate life since 1970, wiped out a large percentage of the insect population, and we're continuing the practices that caused that as well. None of this can go on foreve…

The root cause of all of this: an economic system predicated on the notion of growth. Unrestrained greed, sole focus on maximization of profit, and unlimited growth. It's not enough to sell as many mobile phones as you did last year, no, you must sell 10% more each quarter, or whatever. Doesn't matter if you're mining the earth bare, generating millions of tons of garbage, optimising for inferior products that break sooner, treating workers like slaves in a race to the bottom... in other words making the world objectively worse. All social considerations, moral, ecological, of welfare, of justice, all those considerations don't enter the calculations. All that matters is the quarterly shareholder report.

Like some guy said, "the only people who believe in infinite growth on a finite planet are madmen and economists".

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#33

Post by hackinthebochs »

adetrest wrote: post #23
morganvachon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article stated though, they aren't really the same story and don't share continuity. The show is good but it's not an adaptation of the film in any meaningful way.

Exactly, the show was ok but the film is much better. While the show takes place in a similar universe, it's not a continuity.

The opposite is true to me. The film was OK, but the show was excellent.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#34

Post by dana321 »

ctdonath wrote: post #8

"the ’90s, that bizarre blip in American history where it seemed like we were living in an eternal present, the End of History" That's something millennials & later won't understand: 2000 was a mental barrier we couldn't really think past. Objectively, people may have addressed the next millennium's dates, but we just couldn't deeply believe we'd be living in what was always colloquially called "the future".

Y2K had everyone spooked and everyone thought that all the machines would stop, looking back on it seems funny now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_ap...

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#35

Post by howlin »

andrepd wrote: post #32
DennisP wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically speaking, the best time to own Bitcoin was back in January. Things always look great at the top of a bubble. CO2 is higher than in the past several million years and we're still adding more at our usual pace. We've killed 60% of wild vertebrate life since 1970, wiped out a large percentage of the insect population, and we're continuing the practices that caused that as well. None of this can go on foreve…

The root cause of all of this: an economic system predicated on the notion of growth . Unrestrained greed, sole focus on maximization of profit, and unlimited growth. It's not enough to sell as many mobile phones as you did last year, no, you must sell 10% more each quarter, or whatever. Doesn't matter if you're mining the earth bare, generating millions of tons of garbage, optimising for inferior products that break…

""" It's not enough to sell as many mobile phones as you did last year, no, you must sell 10% more each quarter, or whatever. """

But if the next gen of phones use 30% less resources, it's still possible to grow without increasing the rate of resource consumption. GDP growth has been driven much more by innovation than added resource consumption for years.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#36

Post by hnmonkey »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #31
tunap wrote: post #7

While I loved 12 Monkeys story & most of TG's body of work, I must posit "Brazil" is more relevant in our non-fiction world than anything else he has done. I hesitate to note the multitude of similarities to our current state of information retrieval & bureaucracies. Zero Theorem seemed to touch the needle but sorta fizzled out mid-way(IMO). Yes, I did not RTFA.

I have to admit I still haven’t seen Brazil but it’s been on the to-Watch list for a long time. Zero Theorem just managed to depress the hell out of me for a week or so.

Oh you should. It's a great movie. Absolutely weird and surreal but great. Some of the themes you'll pick up from it are pervasive across tons of other movies and genres all condensed into one wild ride.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#37

Post by dudul »

jasonlotito wrote: post #30
jghn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so interesting as I'd always interpreted "insurance" as her being there to stop the plague. I never considered either of your views nor the one in the article. Now that I see there are so many possible interpretations it really gives some fuel for thought.

She can't stop the plague. They can't change that. It's well established. She can't help the plague. It doesn't need help. This is also well established. However, the whole point of sending Cole back was to find out where they could get a clean version of the specimen. The earliest version of it. He succeeded. She's the "insurance" on this whole thing. She can get a sample of the virus so they can create a cure.

I think this is the most plausible meaning yes. My reading was pretty naive. As for the "I work in insurance" part, I always thought it was her job before the plague, and maybe it meant that the caste of "scientists" who were ruling in the future were actually mostly con-people, self-proclaimed "scientists" who took advantage of the collapse to take control. It doesn't really make sense in a way, they invented time travel after all. In my defense, I saw this movie when I was pretty young so most likely missed a lot of subtleties.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#38

Post by api »

ctdonath wrote: post #8

"the ’90s, that bizarre blip in American history where it seemed like we were living in an eternal present, the End of History" That's something millennials & later won't understand: 2000 was a mental barrier we couldn't really think past. Objectively, people may have addressed the next millennium's dates, but we just couldn't deeply believe we'd be living in what was always colloquially called "the future".

I have a very different take. As someone who grew up in the 90s I draw the line at 9/11. That event ended the brief post cold war era of peace, prosperity, and optimism. We still have not recovered culturally from 9/11. The optimism of the 90s is literally unthinkable today. The terrorists won.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#39

Post by [deleted] »

ctdonath wrote: post #8

"the ’90s, that bizarre blip in American history where it seemed like we were living in an eternal present, the End of History" That's something millennials & later won't understand: 2000 was a mental barrier we couldn't really think past. Objectively, people may have addressed the next millennium's dates, but we just couldn't deeply believe we'd be living in what was always colloquially called "the future".

[deleted]

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#40

Post by platz »

andrepd wrote: post #32
DennisP wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically speaking, the best time to own Bitcoin was back in January. Things always look great at the top of a bubble. CO2 is higher than in the past several million years and we're still adding more at our usual pace. We've killed 60% of wild vertebrate life since 1970, wiped out a large percentage of the insect population, and we're continuing the practices that caused that as well. None of this can go on foreve…

The root cause of all of this: an economic system predicated on the notion of growth . Unrestrained greed, sole focus on maximization of profit, and unlimited growth. It's not enough to sell as many mobile phones as you did last year, no, you must sell 10% more each quarter, or whatever. Doesn't matter if you're mining the earth bare, generating millions of tons of garbage, optimising for inferior products that break…

If you don't produce more than you consume (i.e. grow), how do you sustain yourself?
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