How hustle culture took over advertising • Hacker News Board

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#71

Post by esotericn » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I don't see this as being unique to the US.

It's pretty similar in London (UK), for example.

Here, it's about the fact that most people are hilariously, almost comically underpaid.

The cheapest 1 bedroom flat I can find within an hour of the centre is going to be in the ballpark of 200K.

So if you don't have established wealth, or earn at least 50K (4x mortgage), you're a prole.

Unsurprisingly, people don't want to be proles, so they work their bollocks off to get out of that category.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#72

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #27

balthasar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employees still deserve to be respected and allowed to live normal lives outside of this corporate "hustler culture."

Why should employment be treated as a shroud? If you spend the majority of your time working to abuse your fellow man, I don't respect that, and see no reason why I should. That is not, and should not be accepted as, a "normal life". Advertising companies are a disease.

[deleted]

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#73

Post by lanewinfield » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:26 PM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #2

So, this is the industry that: - puts flashing colored boxes in front of our faces at any possible opportunity - requires us to click through multiple popups to access almost any for-profit website - has normalized the act of wasting human life at a mass scale by injecting multi-minute time-wasting sessions in activities "How hustle culture took over"? It's a hustle by default. I'd call it a swindle.

Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice. How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money?

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#74

Post by egypturnash » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:29 PM UTC

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

It comes from the long-running anti-union propaganda campaigns put on by corporations. It comes from deregulation, which comes from politicians wholly bought and paid for by corporations. It comes from years of flat minimum wage alongside constant inflation. It comes from years and years of decisions about what a business can do to a worker that almost all come down in favor of infinite rights for the business and none for the worker, because the businesses are the ones who can hire the fancy lawyers to spin tangled webs of justifications resting on previous bad decisions or willful misreadings of the letter of existing law.

I am sitting in a hotel bed as I write this, killing time before leaving to catch a plane home. Yesterday I extended my stay by a day; I noticed the front desk clerk was wearing a union button, and complimented him on it. When he mentioned their contract is up for re-negotiation at the end of the month, I wished the union the best of luck in getting a fair chunk of the profits they’re making for the owners. It felt great to be able to say things like that.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#75

Post by johnchristopher » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

yitianjian wrote: post #61

johnchristopher wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where does this all come from? This is an honest question. Why are people working themselves to death in the US and having this crazy mindset that doing stuff which puts you on the verge of a breakdown is good? When did this start? I believe it all started when the Church of Pavlina opened and easy access to personal development blog fueled by Ferris and others. The ubermensch was promoted. At the same time Amazon…

Hey - I've never really heard about the "Church of Pavlina", and Google isn't really forthcoming. Do you mind explaining what you mean a bit?

Sure (sorry about being cryptic).

Steve Pavlina is one of the first superstar of the online self-help world (dating back to 2004 or 2006). It started with an article on a famous website for programmers (can't remember the name atm) about how he dig really deep with his first game and so others were playing catching up but he was raking in a steady monthly income (see where we are going and who would be interested ?).

Then he started his personnal weblog (yeah, we used to call'em weblog in my days) about self help and how he experimented with polyphasic sleep (sleeping 3 or 4 hours a days in twenty minutes increment, see the kind of folks that would bite that bait ?). So far, so good.

Then he went full crazy with psychic powers like talking to bird, being a telepath, reality shaping (aka the secret), etc.

His article were 10 or 12 A4 pages long (wonder how that goes nowadays) and it was kind of mesmerizing to see all that happening in real time (I admit I got first intrigued with his time management article and I kept reading for the crazy).

There was a funny experiment with polyamory and it ended with a divorce.

See http://edificial.blogspot.com/2006/08/church-of-steve-pavlin... for the church of pavlina and https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Steve_Pavlina for links and stuff.

Of course they guy was kinda successful (financially).

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#76

Post by everybodyknows » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

Hustle Culture: What does it mean, exactly? From article:

>"maximizing every last bit of energy you have in order to produce"

>To be clear, hustle isn’t just hard work — it’s showing that you’re working hard.

How anyone can imagine this is supportive of creative work, I just cannot get my head around.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#77

Post by eiaoa » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

lanewinfield wrote: post #73

esotericn wrote: post #2

So, this is the industry that: - puts flashing colored boxes in front of our faces at any possible opportunity - requires us to click through multiple popups to access almost any for-profit website - has normalized the act of wasting human life at a mass scale by injecting multi-minute time-wasting sessions in activities "How hustle culture took over"? It's a hustle by default. I'd call it a swindle.

Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice. How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money?

> How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money?

1. Have less annoying ads that respect the user.

2. Charge money.

3. Some novel funding model that's unexplored because obnoxious ads dominate everything and suck all the air out of the room.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#78

Post by guitarbill » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

GeorgeSarkis wrote: post #30

keiferski wrote: post #3

Just some random thoughts here...this strikes me as a consequence of the contemporary idea of work having to be the end-all to one’s identity, purpose and meaning in life. Advertising, perhaps the ‘original’ fundamentally meaningless career field to spawn from consumer capitalism, used to be mostly about just communicating your product/service. Eventually it morphed into lifestyle marketing and at this point has reac…

>> advertising workers themselves have drunk the Koolaid that used to only be peddled to consumers Please don't blame the victim. The slaves have no choice, they have to dance like their masters require them to. The "choice" to quit their jobs simply doesn't exist since there are fewer and fewer jobs for more and more hungry and desperate poor (payed just to live to another paycheck, making sure they end up in the st…

I'll call bullshit or your victim mentality shtick.

First, things like "at-will employment", which is an offensive term in itself, is pretty much collectively "the workers" fault, since you just vote to not have that, and while you're at it, better labour laws also (see Europe). While we're at collective bargaining, it could be something as simple as everybody in the office agreeing not working past 5pm, or at the other extreme, unionisation.

The reason neither of these things happens is largely self-centred narcissists who ruin it for everybody, because either they can only think of themselves and not others (e.g. if you're single and don't mind staying late vs somebody has kids), or less charitably, they thought of others and then did it anyway. IMO here's the money quote:

> To be clear, hustle isn’t just hard work — it’s showing that you’re working hard.

Of course it is -.-

Edit: Before you say it doesn't work, or doesn't work in the US, consider some of the unions in the US, including the Screen Actors Guild.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#79

Post by egypturnash » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

lanewinfield wrote: post #73

esotericn wrote: post #2

So, this is the industry that: - puts flashing colored boxes in front of our faces at any possible opportunity - requires us to click through multiple popups to access almost any for-profit website - has normalized the act of wasting human life at a mass scale by injecting multi-minute time-wasting sessions in activities "How hustle culture took over"? It's a hustle by default. I'd call it a swindle.

Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice. How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money?

Once Patreon became a thing, I turned off all the ads on my comics and never looked back. I am by no means in even the top 50% of earners but I make more than ads ever did and feel a lot better about it.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#80

Post by egypturnash » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #31

balthasar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employees still deserve to be respected and allowed to live normal lives outside of this corporate "hustler culture."

Show me on this doll of the org chart where the responsibility was abdicated. If you're a summer intern, sure, you can go home and feel good about getting extra credit. If you're the CEO who pushes dark patterns and chooses to sacrifice security for profit, you should toss-and-turn at night. But at which point can we say, "you, the person who knowingly implemented this piece of shit pattern that enables malware to be…

“I was only following orders”