Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How hustle culture took over advertising

digiday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 266 posts

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#51

Post by ryandrake »

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

> What I do wonder is, what's with all these Americans working themselves to the bone?

Intense competition among labor and companies’ willingness and ability to squeeze value out of employees.

Life is not getting any cheaper, but there is a perpetually larger and larger supply of labor willing to do your job for less. Employers are very efficient at capturing that value, so if you want to keep your job from someone willing to be paid N% less, you need to be N% more productive. The most visible proxy for doing that is to work longer hours. Or, be willing to work for less and work multiple jobs. Lots of people do that too.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#52

Post by jensv »

nimbius wrote: post #29

As a professional diesel mechanic, I find most of the points in this article pretty difficult to understand outside the context of, say, Hollywood? or maybe iPhones? Do programmers really have to show this kind of reckless drive? This hasnt been a thing in tradecraft since...forever i dont think...and if it is, its punished pretty severely. An example: if im rebuilding the idler and pitman assembly on a fourteen ton…

Tradespeople will unionize and collectively bargain. Technology types generally don't do this.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#53

Post by johnchristopher »

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

> Where does this all come from? This is an honest question. Why are people working themselves to death in the US and having this crazy mindset that doing stuff which puts you on the verge of a breakdown is good? When did this start?

I believe it all started when the Church of Pavlina opened and easy access to personal development blog fueled by Ferris and others. The ubermensch was promoted. At the same time Amazon and Facebook showed that you could make it big or be a slave so.. fear of doom and american success stories à la "you too can do it if you want" ?

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#54

Post by glaurung_ »

keiferski wrote: post #3

Just some random thoughts here...this strikes me as a consequence of the contemporary idea of work having to be the end-all to one’s identity, purpose and meaning in life. Advertising, perhaps the ‘original’ fundamentally meaningless career field to spawn from consumer capitalism, used to be mostly about just communicating your product/service. Eventually it morphed into lifestyle marketing and at this point has reac…

> the contemporary idea of work having to be the end-all to one’s identity, purpose and meaning in life.

This is something that bothers me a lot. The default answer to any question about who we are is something like "Ohh, I'm a $profession, I work for $company."

I suppose it's an easy ice breaker, but it is so rarely interesting or relevant.

I like riding BMX and Mountain Bikes, being outdoors, building stuff, and have some interest in open source/free culture. Those things are only at best tangentially related to my actual career in IT.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#55

Post by PavlovsCat »

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

When meaning and agency get steadily stripped away, or are even thrown away gladly, until all that remains are metrics that pretend to fill the hole but never really do, the hamster wheel efficiency goes up by a gazillion percent.

A phrase by John Cleese in another context comes to mind: "operating at a very, very low level of mental health." Most people would find that offensive if they heard it head on, but then complain they're not happy in the same breath. But it should be considered an opportunity, "unhealthy" can also be another word for "a lot of untapped potential".

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/multimedia/video/2008/wallace/from...

> For instance, what would you say is happening to man, American man, in relationship to his work?

> FROMM: I think his work is to a large extent, meaningless, because he is not related to it. He is increasingly part of a big machinery, social machinery, governed by a big bureaucracy......and I think American man unconsciously hates his work very often, because he feels trapped by it...imprisoned by it... because he feels that he is spending most of his energy for something which has no meaning in itself.

I would say people don't really breed well in captivity, and that's it. Even people who consciously want it, who are so broken they embrace captivity, are not exempt. They die in some way or other, sooner or later, in one generation or another, sometimes by creating the catastrophe that kills them. Maybe the additional "complexity" is really just invented by a.) prison wards and b.) prisoners who don't dare to meet their gaze, for obvious reasons in either case.

> There is a goal, but no way; but what we call a way is hesitation.

-- Franz Kafka

We have too many yes, but's. They kill the soul, and then the body leads a derpy life.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#56

Post by PavlovsCat »

rabidrat wrote: post #47
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positione…

That's tragic, since the "rat race" is kind of the reason why society and infrastructure are crumbling.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#57

Post by esotericn »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #31
balthasar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employees still deserve to be respected and allowed to live normal lives outside of this corporate "hustler culture."

Show me on this doll of the org chart where the responsibility was abdicated. If you're a summer intern, sure, you can go home and feel good about getting extra credit. If you're the CEO who pushes dark patterns and chooses to sacrifice security for profit, you should toss-and-turn at night. But at which point can we say, "you, the person who knowingly implemented this piece of shit pattern that enables malware to be…

It really depends what you mean by 'personally culpable'.

I don't think anyone should have force used against them (e.g. prison time, fines).

However, it's not only completely fair, but inevitable, that someone's actions influence how they're seen by others.

If your job involves being an asshole, then it's completely unsurprising that people will see you as an asshole. Because you are one. The fact someone pays you to do it is immaterial. You're not an actor at work, your actions have consequences in the world we all live in.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#58

Post by phillc73 »

rabidrat wrote: post #47
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positione…

> if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked.

Another approach is to build security through self sufficiency and community based initiatives. For example, growing your own food wherever possible, or community gardens on common land.

There is a long list of examples and ideas where future security, defining that as decent quality of life, health and education, doesn't need to be based around monetary wealth.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#59

Post by [deleted] »

phillc73 wrote: post #58
rabidrat wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positione…

> if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. Another approach is to build security through self sufficiency and community based initiatives. For example, growing your own food wherever possible, or community gardens on common land. There is a long list of examples and ideas where future security, defining that as decent quality of life, health and education, doesn't need to…

[deleted]

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#60

Post by eiaoa »

rabidrat wrote: post #47
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positione…

> I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positioned to take advantage of that, and they do.

I disagree. That only makes sense if you assume you (and everyone like you) are politically powerless and the rot and decay are inevitable.

There's also another option: redirect that excess effort you're expediting to hoard for the failure into fixing the system before it fails. Your personal efforts to fix it might fail, but some other group that heeded the same call might succeed, and that's all it takes.

Hoarding wealth might seem like a safer bet, but it's just as prone to failure. The kind of wealth you could accumulate through hard work might not be enough to give you the security you want, and to get more you have to take big risks anyway.

Post reply on HN