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A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

nytimes.com

71–80 of 88 posts

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#71
post #4

It is a weird dynamic, from what I understand to China is pretty far behind (just needed a word here so I chose "behind") socially in that area. Sort of Me 2 meets mid 20th century attitudes in the US?

The really weird thing for me living here a few years is Mao once said "Women hold up half the sky" but are still accorded second class (non-official) citizenship in many ways to this day.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#72
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s more perception than reality. Many powerful men and some women have been removed from upper management in industry or government due to sexual harassment. Add to that many very large monetary payouts resulting in policies and training for decades, the difference is before social media these things have been mostly kept quite. Hollywood has also been something of a holdout as people hold power without being som…

The removal of CEOs and boards is a relatively new development; it would be hard, particularly for public companies, to hide such drastic actions, and for it to happen over sexual harassment and similar policies was certainly not very common over the years. Government is a bit of a different case, particularly in the case of elected officials where a lot of times it's more viewed in terms of what it means about the o…

If you compare ‘Meritor Savings Bank v. Vinson’ to these cases the trend is much less extreme situations having significant repercussions. Which eventually hits more CEO’s becase their simplicity are fewer CEO’s of major organizations and thus fewer CEO’s committing extreme over the top acts. Aka more cases of comments than inappropriate touching, more touching than grouping, and more grouping than rape.

However the impact of CEO’s vs the 1000’s of lower level managers is less in that they directly impact fewer people even if they have oversight over large organizations.

As to removal over time that’s extremely sensitive when dealing with CEO’s so the bar has been rather high. Still you can find cases 10+ years ago.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#74
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if the accusations are true, then who cares who it hurts. The injustice would be that OTHER people aren't being brought to justice, not that one group IS.

You're getting downvoted because you're failing to see the bigger picture here, in much the same way journalists deciding "even if we got handed this by the russians, it's true, so we should publish it" is missing the bigger picture. Not to say that we shouldn't seek justice against these people, but that blindly making good local decisions may not end up with good global decisions.

Well wouldn't the reverse also be just as bad and exploitable? The classic is 'ignore misconduct because it might help 'the enemy' make us look bad' is in itself failing to see the big picture and one of the oldest ones in the book for the wicked to retain power.

The proper solution morally of course is to reject false-dichotomies and oppose wrong on all sides - especially within 'your own'.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have never met with a female coworker alone in an office, and have never socialized with women coworkers outside of work. > Has it hurt the development of some of the women who have been my direct reports over the years? Probably, but it has also protected the women I care about the most, namely my wife and daughter, because it has prevented any kind of accusations from getting traction. Jesus. You're aware that…

Not meeting alone or socializing with female coworkers is a pretty intelligent move these days for men, and will probably become the norm until we have cameras watching and recording our every move as proof nothing happened. The problem is that most are guilty until proven innocent....and even when proven innocent many still lost their careers and livelihood in the process and companies just don't want the bad press.

It's about as intelligent as women avoiding being alone with men in fear of being attacked.

In some contexts, perhaps? Generally, no. There are dangers in a lot of interactions yet we still engage in this, there's nothing new about that. This is extreme.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#76
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three accusations in thirty years hardly qualifies as a "regular occurrence." Having spent part of my career in HR, it is not nearly as rare as you would like to think for people (both men and women) to be accused of sexual harassment. I do meet with women, regularly, just never alone. My refusal to meet alone with women is hardly irrational. It is one of the safest and sanest choices a man can make in the current en…

No, it's really weird for you to refuse to have a regular 1:1 with your direct report because she's a woman. That's creepy and not normal at all.

Obviously you are not up to date with the current state of militant feminism in many parts of the western world. Some women will easily make up accusations for personal reasons and even for career advancement. Not meeting them one-on-one in a professional setting is a perfectly valid protection from this. (Why would you need to meet them one-on-one in a workplace anyway? Do you have secret projects you don't want other co-workers to know about?) (Not all women do this obviusly, but a small part. Just like not all men harass others. But it takes one to destroy a career.)

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#77
post #18

I'm sure the crowd control mechanism (social credit system) can be utilized in some way here no?

Perhaps the downvoters are unaware of the specific Chinese program of the social credit system experiment ongoing even right now? https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit

If so, it is understandable that they would not see this as any serious matter, because in the west, the maximum that such a system is worth of is a Black Mirror episode. In China, this is now an everyday reality for many people.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#79

Not surprised! Check out this overtly sexist recruiting video by Alibaba: https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000005795093/chines...

Before clicking the link I was expecting some light sexism, I was not prepared for women employees opening bottles stuck between men's legs. Wow

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#80
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three accusations in thirty years hardly qualifies as a "regular occurrence." Having spent part of my career in HR, it is not nearly as rare as you would like to think for people (both men and women) to be accused of sexual harassment. I do meet with women, regularly, just never alone. My refusal to meet alone with women is hardly irrational. It is one of the safest and sanest choices a man can make in the current en…

No, it's really weird for you to refuse to have a regular 1:1 with your direct report because she's a woman. That's creepy and not normal at all.

No, it's getting quite common. The pence rule, they call it in America.

I've been on the pointy end of a false accusation by a woman in my team who was upset I insisted on supervising and double checking her work (which was extremely poor). Lucky me, the accusation wasn't sexual and double lucky she was a terrible liar. But if you think false accusations are rare you are pretty naive and probably just were never in a position to make an enemy of a woman.

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